Im going to build an LRL (seriously)

[fenixdigger]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

If someone accepts your offer and is not allowed to scan the field ahead of time, you got a fish, reel him in.

 

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[woof!]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Sorry, PuffDaddy, I don't know anyone in the Tacoma area. If it happens, it'll happen in the El Paso area where I will be the one to select the site and bury the coin. Of course if there's someone in Washington who wants to make a similar proposal on their own, that's up to them.

You posted that you could do it in 15 minutes, that's where I got the idea of 15 minutes. After all, it takes less than 60 seconds to walk one edge of a square acre. If it takes another 45 minutes outside that acre first to get the LRL tuned up, no big deal, but if you have to walk all over an acre for an hour with an LRL looking for something that you know is there and you said you could find, it wouldn't seem to be an LRL after all. So if it's a working LRL that's being demonstrated, 15 minutes on the search site is absurdly generous: 4 minutes should be enough to set foot on and identify the center of the 12 foot radius circle within which the coin is buried.

If you're in a hurry looking for an easy-to-detect target with a metal detector and there's no unwanted targets to dig, you can easily cover 5 square feet per second. In 15 minutes, that's a tenth of an acre. An hour, nearly half an acre. In an hour you could closely eyeball the entire acre, and if you were good at reading visual clues, you might be able to find the buried coin without any apparatus at all. I am not interested in a demo of metal detector prowess or eyeballing skill, but I'm willing to lose a gold coin to an LRL that actually works.

--Toto

 

[woof!]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

If someone accepts your offer and is not allowed to scan the field ahead of time, you got a fish, reel him in.

Fenix, the LRL user will be able to observe the search site from its edges immediately prior to the event. An hour if they want. But obviously they cannot be given access to the site proper prior to the event because that gives them the opportunity to locate the coin (for instance with a metal detector) and remove it prior to the event and then claim they were defrauded. If someone wants the ounce, they gotta earn it fair and square-- find it with a working LRL. What I proposed relating to the gold coin is what PuffDaddy said he could do, that's why I proposed it. Give it time, maybe someone else will say they can also do it.

--Toto

 

[woof!]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Toto,

II have some real hot leads in that area. One concerns a copper tub of Spanish gold coins,not too far from Lincoln. This lead comes from Andy Mays,a full-blood Chiricahua. Yes,that very same one,who took Ol' Doc Noss,to "his" cavern of gold. I really pissed off the "Noss" family,when I shared that bit of information with them. Terry's mother denied it--but Jerry's mother admitted to it. Sadly,Andy too,was killed over it,though manny years later.

David

I avoid gettin' dragged into Doc Noss stuff even though it's almost local, that's for other people. Probably 10% of the story(s) is true and I don't know which 10%, and knowing which 10% was true wouldn't make me a dime richer anyhow.

Many years ago a friend of mine tried to drag me into a wild goose chase for the Altar (Sonora) treasure -- we were in the vicinity and he knew people there-- and I wasn't havin' any of that one either. Regular gold mining is crazy enough.

--Toto

 

[woof!]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Gotta make sure there is no super-duper can't see with the naked eye or jewelers loop micro-mini infinity granules of gold/pixie dust on the field.

Eliminate the alibi

Bury an ounce of gold at shallow depth in accessible terrain less than an acre, that seems a real simple and fair test of an LRL. PuffDaddy said he could do it. Heck, if he's got an LRL that actually works, shouldn't be any problem passing that test. ........Not locating the coin because of an alabi means going home empty-handed. The risk posed by alabis is on the person who wishes to locate the coin, the risk is not mine. If a person has an LRL that "works" only by invoking alabis why it didn't produce useful results, the LRL doesn't work, they know it doesn't work, and they won't be interested in my proposal.

A few years ago I posted on the old LRL-dowsing forum a radical notion-- "Dowsing without alabis". If it was a bad dowse, just say the following words: "It was a bad dowse." ..........The "liars' club" ran and hid in the doghouse till the storm blew over.

What I'm proposing is useless to an alabi artist, intentionally so. If someone's got an LRL that works, let them take my ounce of gold, I ain't rich but it ain't my life savings either. If what they have is something else, I'm not interested.

It's about LRL's specifically, and not non-electronic dowsing rods for the following reasons:

1. Electronic locating is my business, and commercial LRL's claim to be in that same business. And every one that I know enough about to know whether or not it's fraudulent, is fraudulent. The damn things parse me arf. That's why I told Chuckie to take his act someplace else and he seems to have heeded the advice.

2. Dowsing fraud does exist for sure, but it doesn't pass itself off as electronic locating and it doesn't have to be fraudulent.

3. A dowser might have a better than chance shot at it, not that I'm worried. An LRL'er however I figure has less than a chance shot at it, because so much more denial is needed with LRL's-- unless of course the thing actually works, in which case no denial is needed.

--Toto

 

[fenixdigger]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Lrls act on signals. If there are signals in the area before the test, it will take a lot longer. Especially IF it is a working Lrl.

 

[woof!]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Lrls act on signals. If there are signals in the area before the test, it will take a lot longer. Especially IF it is a working Lrl.

Fenix, there are "signals" everywhere. What I am proposing is that if someone has an LRL that they think can do what PuffDaddy says his will do, I'm willing to risk an ounce of gold to see it happen. If a person doesn't think their unit can do it, there really isn't much to talk about, other than perhaps to propose an equally straightforward alternative. It was the straightforwardness of what PuffDaddy said he could do, that got my attention. Simple, straightforward, specific, pretty much the definition of what an LRL that really works should be able to do.

The coin will be buried at a site unknown to the LRL user. The LRL user will not be led to the site until shortly before the event. This is necessary to avoid fraud. The site will not be selected on the basis of I think it'll screw up an LRL: as far as I know, all sites do that to the customary crop of LRL's, whereas an LRL that actually works will work at a site of my choosing. I'm not going to locate it directly below high tension lines or 100 yards from a military radar or in a graveyard. And since gold is the element being sought, it won't be in a gold mining area. Most likely either a public park or the open desert.

I am not interesting in screwing up the operation of an LRL that actually works. If the thing doesn't work, it needs no help from me to not work. If the thing does really work, I want to lose that coin to it fair and square, no fraud and no BS. The reason is simple-- if we go through all of this and the guy comes up empty handed, we all wasted our time and money and found out what we already knew to begin with anyhow before this whole thing got started. If it goes as far as someone on the site trying to locate that coin relying on the LRL, the most desirable outcome for both of us is that the coin be located by the LRL.

--Toto

 

[woof!]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

PuffDaddy, I already do underground locating equipment and get paid for it, so I'm not looking for a do-it-yourself LRL project. No time, and frankly no interest since I'm not even particularly good at dowsing. LRL's, other people do those, and you say you've got a good one.

If your concern is all about the time required to navigate the periphery of the site to triangulate, that can probably be accommodated. Time in the search area however, 15 minutes, that's what you said you needed, and it's a reasonable time frame for reasons I've already explained. It's what an LRL that works should be able to do.

Please keep in mind that El Paso is a desert environment with mostly low conductivity soils, and attempting to inject more than a fraction of a watt of power at VLF frequencies involves potentially lethal voltages. This is subject matter I know about, it's part of my job. Even in conductive soils...... egad, 300 watts.....?? better that high school kids should make nitroglycerin in chemistry class. If it works for you, please take someone else's ounce of gold, my ounce isn't worth risking your life for especially with me standing there watching.

* * * * * * * * * *

Responding to Fenix:

If someone accepts your offer and is not allowed to scan the field ahead of time, you got a fish, reel him in.

Fenix, you don't get it. It's not a bet. (Artie, it's not a bet! I hope you don't gamble, not even knowing what is or is not a bet!) It's not a deal where they pay me if they screw up. I do NOT want to reel in someone who can't do it, those we have too many of already! I'm interested in someone who can do it, and that begins with someone who at least believes they can do it. If a person doesn't believe they can, my proposal is not for them. If someone doesn't believe they can do it, I agree, they can't do it.

El Paso is a long ways from just about anyplace else, so coming here for an ounce of gold puts a little skin in the game. In PuffDaddy's case, he's in Washington, and he may decide that the cost of coming here for an ounce of gold isn't worth it, a break-even proposition if he succeeds, making the risk all downside. Or, maybe he visits the southwest now and then and can roll into El Paso no big deal. Up to him to decide. But as far as I'm concerned, it's not about reasons why LRL's don't work. I'm not interested in hosting a field event in which an LRL doesn't work (how boring!), although I realize that fate could befall me anyhow.

--Toto

 

[fenixdigger]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

So,,, you wouldn't know if it was a tomato or a sardine. Call it what you want.

Woof; El Paso is way out there. I'm saying, if you want to see it locate right off the bat, the existing signals need to be identified. Pick 3 fields if you fear fraud, but I would pick a spot to start from, let the tester mark the signals, agree not to place target on an existing signal line. Take the tester out of the area, hide the target, return to setup spot and start. You should have a solution in less that 10 mins.

 

[LM]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

I can see that you're starting to get scared,and all froggy on me. But,my offer still stands: One one ounce gold coin;one acre of pasture;one hour to locate it;one hole to be dug. If you are afraid of disturbing soil--a one ounce gold coin,is very easy to hide in a pasture.
As I said before: I usually put on this demonstration gratis. But,not when I'm callenged by a synic.
You will have to pay for the privelege of being humiliated. And you still will not be privy to how it works.
"How sharp as a serpent's tooth,is an ungrateful synic"...
David

Well, I'm not in Washington and that's too far to travel to visit the Tooth Fairy, but I'll be happy to locate someone in Washington to run this test, presuming you're willing to wager an ounce of gold of your own, rather than just waste everyone's time with a fruitless demonstration that culminates in a series of excuses as to why your machine didn't work (the soil was wrong, the field was wrong, the atmospheric conditions were wrong, perhaps there was a sunspot in Galaxy Hoaxtron-5 that caused the 'waves' to not work...) There are enough people out there who take great joy in busting up frauds that I'm certain I can reach out the right people and locate one close to you...

Like I said, PM me your number, or I can PM you mine. We can solidify the terms, set everything up and post it on youtube.
Really, that simple.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

You are 100% correct LT…You may have one signal line and you may have a 100 signal lines..If you have not searched that area before you never know what problems you will encounter. Even with all the new techno features we now have these devices can still be fooled by Micro gold…If you are going to Treasure Hunt with these devices You have to learn how Micro gold affects these Devices..Art

 

[woof!]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Art, the micro gold thing is a pixiedust alabi, it has everything to do with LRL's that don't work and nothing to do with ones that do, if any. If an LRL probably can't find an ounce gold coin because of "micro gold" or because of gold in circuit boards in the car, or because of the gold fillings in my teeth, then it's an LRL that can't do the particular job I've outlined, and I'm not interested. Maybe someone else is interested in some other deal, check with Morgan, I see he's still in the discussion.

* * * * *

Fenix, you don't have to do that with a dowsing rod, so what you're describing is inferior to dowsing. As I explained in an earlier post, LRL's as we presently know them require more denial than dowsing does, and that in my opinion is what makes them inferior to dowsing.

An LRL that actually works, would be superior to dowsing, not inferior, because after all, with those L-rods and no electronic stuff as a minimum you're already set up for dowsing. If someone's got an LRL that doesn't rely on hand-held swivels, I'm willing to discuss the possibility but for now it's about hand-held swivel LRL's with supposed electronic enhancement.

The coin will be buried before the LRL user shows up in town, and the coin belongs to the LRL user if he locates it within a 12 foot diameter circle within 15 minutes on the actual search field having an area less than one acre. If it takes a little while to get the unit tuned up before entering the search area, that's fine. An ounce of gold you know is there and it's probably less than 200 feet from where you start. Every reasonable precaution will be taken to avoid arguments about the outcome-- in other words, misunderstanding or fraud. Doesn't seem like a difficult job for an LRL that actually works.

* * * * * * *

Summarizing: I have no interest in seeing an LRL not work. I'm interested enough in seeing one work, to put an ounce of gold up for grabs. Locate it and it's yours. Heck, locate it and I'll even buy dinner afterwords if you've got time.

--Toto

 

[fenixdigger]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

I'm just saying you are setting this up for failure even with a 100% device/procedure. A 1/1000 of a gram piece of gold in the ground for 2 million years has the same signature as 100 lbs buried 100 yrs. If the device has a range of 5 miles how many of these do you think are in that area? Boost that to a range of 20+ miles.

We normally visit a site 2 or 3 times gathering info, going to Google earth, plotting on the topos, working on 4 or 5 spots at a time.

Once final determinations are done, then a recovery trip is made. This takes more than 15 mins. If I scan an area, then add a target, 15 mins is possible. That's the only way.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

~woof!
Art, the micro gold thing is a pixie dust alabi, it has everything to do with LRL's that don't work and nothing to do with ones that do, if any. If an LRL probably can't find an ounce gold coin because of "micro gold" or because of gold in circuit boards in the car, or because of the gold fillings in my teeth, then it's an LRL that can't do the particular job I've outlined, and I'm not interested. Maybe someone else is interested in some other deal, check with Morgan, I see he's still in the discussion.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/2u516x2145163738/
http://rruff.geo.arizona.edu/doclib/cm/vol37/CM37_1525.pdf
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1367912001000530
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037567429900062X
http://www.springerlink.com/content/04338137nx148185/
http://www.see.leeds.ac.uk/research/essi/people/chapman/indigenous.htm
It is not a pixie dust alibi..It is a real problem for every person that looks for gold and has nothing to do with the tools you decide to use..

 

[pronghorn]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Anyone who wants to take a one ounce gold coin,and hide it on one acre of park-like terrain;and give me fifteen minutes to locate it--will lose/forfiet that gold coin.
David

Toto,

If you are not familiar with this technology,then you could not possibly be in a position to say how long it should take.
David

You set the time frame in your earlier post puff, you are
already waffling.

And the LRL believer conman excuse-athon continues.

you may have a 100 signal lines..If you have not searched that area before you never know what problems you will encounter.

A 1/1000 of a gram piece of gold in the ground for 2 million years has the same signature as 100 lbs buried 100 yrs.

I guess this is a piece of data only an LRL believer could know after
having found a thousandth of a gram of gold that was dated and
100 lbs of gold that was dated, is this your claim girls?

On the whole,dowsing has a very poor success-rating. If I had to put a number to it,I would say about 0.00001%.
David

Can't wait to hear what Master Dowser Art
has to say about that statement!

That's one successful dowse in 10,000,000 tries Art,
do you agree with puff's statement

 

[woof!]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

PuffDaddy, if you're still interested in locating a gold coin in 15 minutes on a less than 1 acre site, I suppose we could discuss that. I'm not interested in a discussion of the technology you've got, although if it is not something that can be used with a reasonable degree of safety, I wouldn't want it to be used to locate my gold coin, let it find someone else's.

--Toto

 

[woof!]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Arthur, an LRL that is misled by "micron gold" is the wrong sort of apparatus for locating my gold coin. If it can't do that particular job, it's irrelevant to my proposal.

* * * * * * *

I'm just saying you are setting this up for failure even with a 100% device/procedure. A 1/1000 of a gram piece of gold in the ground for 2 million years has the same signature as 100 lbs buried 100 yrs. If the device has a range of 5 miles how many of these do you think are in that area? Boost that to a range of 20+ miles.

We normally visit a site 2 or 3 times gathering info, going to Google earth, plotting on the topos, working on 4 or 5 spots at a time.

Once final determinations are done, then a recovery trip is made. This takes more than 15 mins. If I scan an area, then add a target, 15 mins is possible. That's the only way.

Fenix, the apparatus you're talking about is the same old stuff. It's useless for acquiring my ounce of gold-- and not likely anyone else's either, for the reasons you yourself recited. Wrong tool for the job. It's entirely irrelevant to my proposal, which is to locate my gold coin.

--Dave J.

 

[fenixdigger]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Remember Sparky, validation is in your hands. Just remember to shake it first.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

~Woof~

Arthur, an LRL that is misled by "micron gold" is the wrong sort of apparatus for locating my gold coin. If it can't do that particular job, it's irrelevant to my proposal.

You have made the rules,, fenixdigger posted a suggestion for the pre test for PuffDaddy..I agree with him. No big deal as time is money..Are you saying that a Conventional Metal Detector is the wrong tool when searching for gold rings?..Art

 

[woof!]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

~Woof~

Arthur, an LRL that is misled by "micron gold" is the wrong sort of apparatus for locating my gold coin. If it can't do that particular job, it's irrelevant to my proposal.

You have made the rules,, fenixdigger posted a suggestion for the pre test for PuffDaddy..I agree with him. No big deal as time is money..Are you saying that a Conventional Metal Detector is the wrong tool when searching for gold rings?..Art

Didn't say a thing about gold rings, Art, but if that's what you're looking for, a metal detector might come in handy.

I've offered up an ounce gold coin to be located by an LRL, not by any other method. Fenix's proposal was not of that kind. If Fenix wants it done his way, let him put his ounce of gold on the line.

--Toto