is this a dovetail

[outlawatheart]

very small and worked too almost nothing and has the characteristic tail. The twist on this piece is very pronounced.

 

[Gold Maven]

Looks like a bevel. Knife.

 

[outlawatheart]

some types dovetails are very heavy beveled here, just haven't seen one worked down so far plus it seemed to have been a small point in its beginning and most points of its type are bigger here. That's what made me question it.

Looks like a bevel. Knife.

 

[GatorBoy]

I think it might be a Thebes

 

[outlawatheart]

isn't the base kind of round for thebes? I was told by someone on here that this one might be a thebes as well

I think it might be a Thebes

 

[GatorBoy]

There are several different base configurations for the Thebes.. Including convex ...if it is ground on the base I would say that's likely what it is.
Some are more side notched some are more corner notched as well

 

[outlawatheart]

the little one does show grinding and looks like the little center notch was done after. hard to see the notch in the photo. The big point shows no grinding.

There are several different base configurations for the Thebes.. Including convex ...if it is ground on the base I would say that's likely what it is.
Some are more side notched some are more corner notched as well

 

[quito]

Center notch would get me leaning towards St. Charles.

Anything worn down to that size would likely appear have a ground base just from wear in the halfting.

 

[GatorBoy]

Do you find Harden or Scottsbluff points at that same site?
They are closely associated with the "Dovetail" in most instances.
Otherwise dovetail in and of itself is used to describe at least nine different subtypes unless specifically speaking of the St Charles point.. The generalization "dovetail" embodies the attributes of many different types and is likely over used by a lot of collectors .. And is actually different types all together

 

[outlawatheart]

I have a couple of turkey tails from there and a general mixing of different types over the years. several drills too. most stuff found in that area is well made.

Do you find Harden or Scottsbluff points at that same site?
They are closely associated with the "Dovetail" in most instances.
Otherwise dovetail in and of itself is used to describe at least nine different subtypes unless specifically speaking of the St Charles point.. The generalization "dovetail" embodies the attributes of many different types and is likely over used by a lot of collectors .. And is actually different types all together

 

[Hippy]

Yep, it's most likely a notch-based dovetail that's been heavily resharpened. It's not a Thebes.

St. Charles is the actual name for the type as described at the type site and named for St. Charles County, Missouri by Skully I believe. However, most collectors still call them Dovetails. There isn't any difference between Dovetail and St. Charles. But yes, there are many different basal configurations including button based, hip-roof style, wide-based, etc.

Hippy

 

[outlawatheart]

THNX for all the great opinions!!

 

[outlawatheart]

I agree not a Thebes...would love your opinion on this one Hippy I posted it as a dovetail and heard from a few that it might be Hopewell

Yep, it's most likely a notch-based dovetail that's been heavily resharpened. It's not a Thebes.

St. Charles is the actual name for the type as described at the type site and named for St. Charles County, Missouri by Skully I believe. However, most collectors still call them Dovetails. There isn't any difference between Dovetail and St. Charles. But yes, there are many different basal configurations including button based, hip-roof style, wide-based, etc.

Hippy

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Gentlemen please stop the insults.

We will NOT go quietly into the night!

 

[larson1951]

Pay attention to the last opinion. He collects them, and probably knows more about them (and other things) than just about anyone here.

The other expert ( and I use the term loosely) should be citing who he's quoting.

Listen here... you can take your negative vibes and your over pushed personal opinions and and head for the door .
Your opinion is no better than anyone else in here and certainly no better than mine I've had enough of it and so have many others here.

outlaw you have a nice piece...looks heavily resharpened but that's all i know
you two are both my friends..and you should try being the same

there is nothing to be gained by pounding away on each other and it needs to stop....starting now please...bury the hatchet

larson1951

 

[quito]

Hey guys, I am not pounding away.

I think it's common courtesy, that if people are gonna copy and paste answers instead of giving their own, the original writer should get the credit.

From Overstreets, By Perino, or Rogers says"... for example.

 

[GatorBoy]

After going over everything I agree with Hippy.
I copied and pasted nothing.. Just did the research and took the time to share it.... in my own words by the way

 

[Buckleberry]

Very cool....final stage notched base dove!

 

[Hippy]

I agree not a Thebes...would love your opinion on this one Hippy View attachment 914645View attachment 914646 I posted it as a dovetail and heard from a few that it might be Hopewell

Hey Outlaw,

Yep, that's definitely an early archaic and one of the dovetail sub-types. Most collectors like to call them "Hardoves" because the have traits of both a Hardin and Dovetail. Perino named a type called Ocala that looks similar but he named after Ocala, Florida so I don't think there is much information on them. When we find them they are usually in the same places as Hardins, Thebes, and other Doves. I think they probably were just shorter, wider variety of a dovetail and they really are a cross between a Hardin and a Dove.

I've pictured a couple of mine that would fit in the same category. I also have another picture at home of a piece that is nearly identical to that. I'll see if I can post it later.

Hippy

 

[outlawatheart]

Wow Hippy those are most awesome! ... I have found Thebes in the same area and have pulled out several Snyder type points too. Would appreciate your opinion on this one it was found on the same hill as the white one. Dovetails are my favorite!!! Thnx for taking the time to educate me sir.

Hey Outlaw,

Yep, that's definitely an early archaic and one of the dovetail sub-types. Most collectors like to call them "Hardoves" because the have traits of both a Hardin and Dovetail. Perino named a type called Ocala that looks similar but he named after Ocala, Florida so I don't think there is much information on them. When we find them they are usually in the same places as Hardins, Thebes, and other Doves. I think they probably were just shorter, wider variety of a dovetail and they really are a cross between a Hardin and a Dove.

I've pictured a couple of mine that would fit in the same category. I also have another picture at home of a piece that is nearly identical to that. I'll see if I can post it later.

Hippy