Is This A Dropped Musket Ball?

[Erik in NJ]

This lead ball was found on the former British Isle not far from where I found the beautiful 1600's Openwork Bridal Boss. It is round and measures approx 5/8" in diameter. It was found in a somewhat wet area. Thanks fo any help!

 

[romeo-1]

Yes.

 

[Erik in NJ]

Thanks Romeo for the quick reply! Any idea on caliber? I'm assuming it was a British ball. Any way to get an approx timeframe? Thanks again!!

Best, Erik

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

We'll need super-precise measurement (made with Digital Calipers, not a ruler) to tell your musketball's caliber and time-period. For example, Revolutionary War era Military muskets tended to be .72 to .75-caliber. But in the early 1800s, the typical US Military musket had diminished to .69-caliber. Then as the Civil War era approached, the typical Military musket caliber had dropped again, to .58-caliber.

 

[Erik in NJ]

Thanks! I do have a couple pairs of digital calipers here and will take said measurement and post here (assuming you want the measurement in inches). Are there any measurements on the shot ball that I can take to determine caliber? Best, Erik

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Yes, measurement in inches is preferrable, because antique American and British gun-calibers are in inch-based measurements. Also, it will save me from having to convert millimeters into decimal-inch.

Your fired musketball's original diameter appears to be "significantly" damaged by impact. However, one of your photos shows a side which is still at least kinda round-ish. Put the caliper's jaws around the ends of that still-roundish side, and give us the best estimate you can do.

 

[ivan salis]

roughly speaking around 3/4th inch is .75 / .72 caliber (british)-- -- american / french guns ran from 78 to 70 caliber depending upon maker.

 

[DevilDog812]

roughly speaking around 3/4th inch is .75 / .72 caliber (british)-- -- american / french guns ran from 78 to 70 caliber depending upon maker.

yep, just like ivan said

a .50 cal machine gun shoots bullets with a half inch diameter (about)

 

[Erik in NJ]

This one seems almost perfectly round to the touch. There is one small slightly "flat" spot on it that I will try to scan for you. So do you think this one was dropped or shot? Thanks!

 

[DevilDog812]

This one seems almost perfectly round to the touch. There is one small slightly "flat" spot on it that I will try to scan for you. So do you think this one was dropped or shot? Thanks!

the flat side could possible be "sprue" basically the overspill when it was poured into the mold

 

[Erik in NJ]

DevilDog,

That's pretty cool and seems to explain it. Thanks for the pic!!

 

[ivan salis]

due to it's roundness and non marred looks --looks to be a unfired "dropped' ball

 

[Erik in NJ]

Very interesting. What was the rationale for reducing the size of the balls over time? Thanks for any insight!

We'll need super-precise measurement (made with Digital Calipers, not a ruler) to tell your musketball's caliber and time-period. For example, Revolutionary War era Military muskets tended to be .72 to .75-caliber. But in the early 1800s, the typical US Military musket had diminished to .69-caliber. Then as the Civil War era approached, the typical Military musket caliber had dropped again, to .58-caliber.

 

[ivan salis]

better powders and "rifling" --

muskets were smooth bores -- thus much more inaccurate , so military leaders depended much more on "volley fire"--a batch of folks standing shoulder to shoulder pointing their guns in the same area --massed fire -- lots of bullets shot in a area to kill off the enemy * this was the common british "european" style of big numbers warfare of the rev war era .

big large shot had lots of "knock down" power due to it massive weight --thus the 75 caliber monsters

as rifling came on the scene --one could actually aim and hit things fairly often --so the size dropped a bit -- being one could get "good hits" -- sheer size of shot became less important --and lighter shot could go much farther as well -- 69 caliber and 58 caliber

once one got to the smokeless powder and cartridge era -- many guns went to 45 or 30 caliber size as shot size / weight grew even less important due to much faster speeds and the "kenetic energy" of them.

 

[timekiller]

Very interesting. What was the rationale for reducing the size of the balls over time? Thanks for any insight!

We'll need super-precise measurement (made with Digital Calipers, not a ruler) to tell your musketball's caliber and time-period. For example, Revolutionary War era Military muskets tended to be .72 to .75-caliber. But in the early 1800s, the typical US Military musket had diminished to .69-caliber. Then as the Civil War era approached, the typical Military musket caliber had dropped again, to .58-caliber.

Not sure there is any. I can tell you this here where I hunt you will find far more small size musket (I call shot) that comes from colonial sites then the larger ones.Just a fact.I find them almost every hunt.Even have found the strips that they go to.Small shot was very common in the 1600's & early 1700's.As you can see in my post.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,390586.0.html
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,309207.0.html
http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_pages/0355-0609-2214-0525.html
http://www.artifacts.org/Artifacts.htm
http://auction.sedwickcoins.com/Lot-of-29-lead-musketballs_i10432135
page 162-163 here
http://www.sedwickcoins.com/treasureauction4_catalog.htm


Take Care,
Pete,

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Erik in NJ wrote:
> What was the rationale for reducing the size of the balls over time?

In addition to what Ivan said ("better powders and rifling")... the desire to reduce the weight of the gun and the ammunition a soldier had to tote on long marches. Smaller caliber gun and ammo means significantly less weight. Or, you can carry a larger number of cartridges when they weigh less than the previous version.

Please note, especially, that I was referring to Military muskets. (When talking in my prior reply about the reduced calibers, I used the word Military three times in three sentences.) Civilian game-hunters used smaller-caliber muskets, rather than tote around a honking-heavy big Military musket. And by "Military" I mean Regulation-Issue ...in other words, the "standard" musket issued by the Regular (National) Army to its infantrymen. That does not include the hodgepodge of various-caliber civilian muskets carried by local Militia and "volunteers."

Also keep in mind that many of the 1700s/1800s smaller-caliber lead balls we relic-hunters find (.31, .44, .50-caliber, etc) were for pistols ...which were not "standard issue" for Army Infantrymen. (But of course, as many civil war soldier-photos show, a good number of soldiers brought their own pistol from home and carried it into battle).

To recap the ever-shrinking size of Military musket/rifle calibers in the past 200 years:
The British Army's standard-issue musket for Infantrymen during the American Revolution was the .75-caliber "Brown Bess" musket.
The US Army's standard-issue musket for Infantrymen from 1816 to 1854 was the .69-caliber Springfield musket.
The US Army's standard-issue rifle for Infantrymen from 1855 through 1865 was the .58-caliber Springfield rifle.
The US Army's standard-issue rifle for Infantrymen in 1866 was the .50-70-caliber Springfield rifle.
The US Army's standard-issue rifle for Infantrymen from 1873 - early 1890s was the .45-70 caliber Springfield rifle.
The US Army's standard-issue rifle for Infantrymen from 1892 - 1902 was the .30-40 caliber Krag rifle (a/k/a the US Magazine rifle).
The US Army's standard-issue rifles for Infantrymen from 1903 - 1961 were various models of .30-caliber (the .30-06, the M-1, etc).
The US Army's standard-issue rifle adopted for Infantry use in 1962 was the .21889 caliber (5.56mm) M-16

One additional point:
Readers, please keep in mind that a bullet's caliber is never the same as its actual diameter. The term "caliber" refers to the internal diameter of a firearm's barrel. For example, the .75-caliber "Brown Bess musket's lead ball was .71-inch in diameter ...because a musket is a muzzle-loading firearm. You cannot cram a .75-inch ball down the muzzle of a .75-caliber gunbarrel.

 

[ivan salis]

yep to fit and come out smoothly they need to be a tiny bit undersized * with round balls the differance is taken up by the "patch" --with hollow based conical bullets (pointed minie ball type) the expanding gases from the burning powder --expanded and flared out the hollow rear wall area of the bullet making for a good gas seal -- the expanding gaes then pushed the bullet along

the 58 caliber springfeild rifle was the last loose powder type general rifle weapon of the US military -- post civil war "blackpowder"cartridge type weapons became the issued weapon .

modern smokeless powder weapons were adopted after high troop losses to the spanish in cuba during the spanish american war -- the blackpowder cartridge guns ( like the old 45 -70 and 30-40 krag) when fired gave away the shooters position causing them to get "picked off" by the 8 MM smokeless powder firing mauser's the spanish were using

teddy roosevelt was on hand during the fighting in cuba and saw that that -america was "behind the times"military rifle wize"-- so when he became president --he had the US military design the now famous 30 -06 springfeild bolt action rifle ( the govt designers stole a lot of their ideals from the mauser rifle action) -- in time the US govt had to PAY mauser for swiping their designs .

 

[timekiller]

Not trying to be anal here. But he clearly states that it was found on a former British Isle.So why is military(REV.WAR-Civil War) involved I know his Bridel boss was 1600's.All I know is they used small,large almost anything they could pack down a barrel back then.
Some would pack one large & then pack small shot behind that.
The simplicity of the musket design allowed it to fire a variety of ammunition. The simplest ammunition for musket was the round ball, which was literally just a round ball of lead. Round balls were intentionally loose fitting in the barrel so that they could quickly be loaded even after the barrel had been fouled by numerous previous shots. This loose fit, combined with the poor aerodynamics of the round ball led to the musket's inaccuracy beyond 50 to 75 yards or so. Muskets could also fire smaller lead pellets called lead shot or buckshot, which struck a wider area but with less force than a single lead ball. Round balls could be combined with buckshot to produce buck and ball ammunition, which combined the wider area of attack of shot with the large mass of the round ball
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket

These are the buck shot they are speaking of.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,270413.0.html

Take Care All,
Pete,

 

[Erik in NJ]

Probably my fault Pete for asking the general question as to why the caliber was reduced over time . Since I found these two musket balls in two different countries within a week of each other I think this also added to the confusion. Thanks so far to all who posted for all of the great pics and very interesting information -- I've learned a lot from this thread!

 

[ivan salis]

the reason rev war is talked about is the cakiber -- 75 to 72 caliber is the common caliber of the british "brown bess" type musket --which was commonly used by the british during the rev war time frame * --british isle = most likely british weapons used by locals .--not sayinng they WERE USED during the rev war per si but they are most likely around that time frame era .

rhe civil war is also talked about since the fellow wanted to know why they "reduced" size of balls and when it occured -- this of course lead into a "general" history of rifle projectiles (musket balls and bullets.)---sorry if it confused you too much .

buck and ball was commonly used in smooth bore type muskets in the civil war --rifling made smooth bore muskets -- old hat very quickly --atlhough the smooth bore single shot type muskets were still used a good bit during the war -- post civil war war they were phazed out by the military in favor of cartridge loaded type weapons