it was hard to make it out but its a St. Patrick coppers nj

[pinebarrens1]

the only readable thing one it and it the '''''''rex ''' letters on it ..........the r e x really is readable ...the pic on the pc is not that great if someone can get the letters better than please help ....also known as a nj copper ....pine



example on the bottom is one in good shape



The coins he acquired were know as “St. Patrick coppers” and were originally struck in 1641 and 1642, and were used to pay the Catholic troops who fought Cromwell’s Protestant army in the Ulster Rebellion. A Puritanical movement in England suppressed everything Catholic, including these copper pieces. The coins reappeared in Ireland and the Isle of Man, but in 1679 the Manx Parliament rescinded their use as legal tender. These coppers were struck in two denominations a halfpence (1/2 penny) and a farthing (1/4 penny).

In September of 1681, Newby left Ireland, with about 20 other Quakers, heading for the American Colonies. He sailed on a fishing ship called “Owners Adventurer.” About a month later, the ship anchored off what is now Salem, New Jersey. After spending the winter in Salem, Newby moved to Gloucester County near present day Camden. It was there he set up the first bank in the Province of New Jersey

 

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[Don in SJ]

Al, after looking through an auction catalog from 2003, where over 130+ St Patrick farthing coins were auctioned off, none of them have the figures where you say, however, you pictured the Halfpenny from the ND site and as far as anybody knows none have been recovered by detectorists in the USA, but at least 9 Farthings have been recovered by detectorists, and if your coin was a Halfpenny, that would be a find that those researching St Pats would surely be interested in, not for financial reasons, but for historical reasons.

There are two Halfpennies in the same auction catalog, it does not give their diameters, but the weights were 132.3 grains and 127.4 grains, so by weight there is still an outside chance it is a halfpenny, but the diameter of yours makes it somewhat doubtful I believe.

But, if the measurements you posted are correct, I seriously doubt it could be the halfpenny, due to none basically being reported here, but more importantly the diameter should be over 28mm, even in worn condition, and the weight should be a tad higher.

The 26mm size you stated is much closer to the farthings which range around 25mm, but almost known farthings are under 100 grains, although one on the ND site is slightly above, but that is not a worn out one. The one researcher of St Pats says the Farthings that are worn from circulation weigh on avg about 79 grains.

So, I think it is by far too heavy to be a St Pat's Farthing and it is too small in diameter to be the bigger planchet known as the halfpenny in addition to the weight be on the low side.

Again, I would lean more towards a KG counterfeit copper, but I am going totally by facts of size and weight, your scan is just not good enough for me to play with in the software programs to enhance the photo.

If you want to still send it to me that is OK, I would pm you my address, but I wish you could post a better photo/scan on your own.

I suggest, since the coin will never be worth much to anybody to try a wet cottonswab and gently try to remove the dirt where you think the features are, including the REX you see. Then try another scan, it would be nice if your scans were of higher pixel count, I did not know you could even do one below 4kb, gads, that is too low of resolution for any playing with in photo enhancement programs.

Don

 

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[Iron Patch]

Question... Your picture is posted the same way as the one below?

If so, it looks like the "A" is also visible? Have a look Don, it seems to be in the right spot.

I'm still betting it's good!

 

[pinebarrens1]

with dons help i want to put this to rest ...................if nothing comes out of it maybe i can help with this coin research ....so if dons willing to clean it and help me with it i'm game .................and maybe if it cleans up nice , the best thing for me can be a banner ...and coin research to help other people with there finding about this coin ..alfonso

 

[l.cutler]

A little trick that sometimes helps to see detail is to put apiece of aluminum foil on the coin and rub with your finger. Any detail on the coin will show on the foil.

 

[Don in SJ]

Hopefully, after I receive the coin, weigh it, measure it, take high resolution super macro photos and then analyze the coin, that should be enough to ID the coin, if not then time to start cleaning off the years of crud in hopes of detail emerging more clearly.

At least Al took the time to really examine the coin, there are many out there who once they find a almost blank copper, will just call it a smoothie and never pursue trying to find out what that piece of history was at one time. I am glad to see the interest in trying to find what may appear almost as a worn out blank slug. One thing I hate to have in my collection is a copper that is totally a Unknown. Luckily there are very few in that category.

I do not get as many near blanks as field hunters do, so maybe it is a bit easier for me in the long run to ID the worn coins. I know my buddy in Burlington County had handfuls of coppers he said he could not ID, but finally he decided to tumble the bad coppers and wow, out of his pile he got a few NJ coppers, A ST PAT's FARTHING and several other state coins and of course some KG coppers..............
Leaving the coins dirty did no good, but even cleaning using the more drastic tumbling method did bring to life detail on what otherwise forever would have been in his junk coin box as blanks...

With that said, I had a friend from NH send me I believe it was 4 or 5 coppers and he knew one or two of them had some detail but not exactly what they were. Well, one of the coins he thought not much of turned out to be a 1814 Wellington token, which I felt good about getting the ID on. So, examine those coins that look worn out very thoroughly, usually I always photograph as many "before" cleaning shots as I can and look for any detail, and then of course during and after the cleaning, more photos for comparison and hopefully at least an ID of some sort.

I will let Al know the identity as soon as I can examine it up close and personal..........

Don

 

[pinebarrens1]

thank you don, for taking your time to help me out .........enuff said

 

[kdismuke1]

SUPER FIND.

 

[pinebarrens1]

don took his time and solved this puzzle for me .......http://www.irishcoinage.com/J01039.HTM is the web site ....and heres the coin info ...................

This coin is an Irish halfpenny struck by Mathew Bolton in his mint in Soho in Birmingham and issued in Ireland in 1805.

These coins are only dated 1805 - the pennies are similar and also dated 1805, there is farthing which is dated 1806.

The mint in Birmingham produced a variety of Copper , Bronzed Copper (link), Silver and Gilt proof of these coins.

The currency issues have an engrailed edge (a patterned groove cut into the edge all around the coin). The proof strikings occur with both engrailed and plain edges.


This coin is in about uncirculated condition. It has no actual signs of wear but it has toned and has lost some of its surface lustre. Note how weak the date is even in this condition.

These coins are very common - specimens in Very Fine or worse condition are readily available. Only examples in better than Extremely Fine condition are scarce.


thanks for everyones help .....and thanks don , without you , i would have gone nowhere with it ........alfonso

 

[Iron Patch]

Oh well, I give you a for getting to the bottom of it and not leaving everyone to believe it was a ST. Pats coin. Maybe next time!

 

[Don in SJ]

Well, at least it was an Irish copper!

Alfonso mailed his possible St Patrick's copper to me this past week. As soon as I had it in my hand I knew it was not a St Pats, but by the nice raised rim on the copper I knew it also it was most likely not a King George III counterfeit Halfpenny.

I looked at the Obverse side first, where REX appeared and with just a little bit of wet Q-tip where I suspected more letters, I began to see GIU, which would be part of GEORGIUS. I now new I had a King George copper of some type.

Next I looked at the edge and saw that it had what appeared to be a seam, although severely worn down. I remembered that the coppers from the SOHO mint in 1805-1806 time frame had that specific type edge.

I quickly looked on the Reverse side of the coin and I could faintly see the letter H and what appeared to be a Harp in the center of the coin.

I went to my collection and got out two examples of the coin I thought it was, as I put them next to Alfonso's copper, I could see that his was the same as my two, but just in a more worn condition.

With a bit more cleaning I was able to see most of HIBERNIA on the reverse side and the outline of the Harp, but only when the coin was wet. I wanted the features to show so I could photograph them and put it side by side with one of my coins.

So I spent some time this morning with a wet Q-tip, trying to enhance what lettering and feature were let in hopes of being able to get a decent photograph.

Nothing seemed to get it much better, due to the corrosive condition of the coin and lack of details due to wear. But I decided to try Bee Wax coating and lo and behold that worked!

Once the coin dried I was able to see as much as possible even while dry, so I got out one of my coins and took photos of the Obverse, Reverse and edge shots for comparison photos.

I want to thank Alfonso for really wanting to know what the coin, and taking the extra step of sending it to me for identification. Now Al, I think it is time perhaps for a good digital camera!

Attached are the photos I took this morning of Alfonso's copper and one of mine.

Again, the coin is a 1805 King George III Irish Halfpenny.

Don

 

[pinebarrens1]

thank you don , maybe next time .

 

[diggergrl]

Neat find! And great job researching it.

 

[pjroo33]

Great ID Don!