Its all Harrys Fault
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gleaner1
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Re: It's all Harry's Fault
Road Dog, you made a killin' on that piece.
Road Dog, you made a killin' on that piece.
Harry Pristis
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Re: It's all Harry's Fault
Wow! That was a terrific find!Road Dog said:
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Re: It's all Harry's Fault
What is it and how much might it be worth? More than 4 bucks I'm sure...
What is it and how much might it be worth? More than 4 bucks I'm sure...
Road Dog
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Re: It's all Harry's Fault
Atleast 4 bucks. It's a squat cylinder from 1790 give or take.
the bulge at the heel, tells me that the push-up was done after the cylinder was shaped on the marver plate. At that point the push-up could have been done with a molette or a push-up shaped piece on the edge of the marver plate. Creating the push-up spread the diameter of the heel, making it bulge like that. Red Mathews gave me that bit of info.
I'm sure Harry can give some more info on these types.
Atleast 4 bucks. It's a squat cylinder from 1790 give or take.
the bulge at the heel, tells me that the push-up was done after the cylinder was shaped on the marver plate. At that point the push-up could have been done with a molette or a push-up shaped piece on the edge of the marver plate. Creating the push-up spread the diameter of the heel, making it bulge like that. Red Mathews gave me that bit of info.
I'm sure Harry can give some more info on these types.
Harry Pristis
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Re: It's all Harry's Fault
Many tall cylinders were dip-mold blown, not marvered. I cannot determine from your image if your tall cylinder was molded, but it could easily be. Look for the mold mark around the circumference of the bottle where the shoulder starts. You can see the dip-mold marks in this crude tall cylinder.
Dumbrell gives these dates for the two forms of cylinders:
Squat cylindrical wine bottles, circa 1740 to 1830
[tall] Cylindrical wine bottles, circa 1735 to 1830
(Three-piece mold cylindrical wine bottles, circa 1811 to 1900.)
I do agree with Red that the kick-up squeezed more glass into the bottom of the cylinder creating some pressure to expand. Further the glass in the kick-up became thicker, retaining more heat and plasticity while the rest of the bottle was rapidly cooling and becoming rigid. What we see as a result is slumping at the heel of the bottle.
Using the descriptive terms from Roger Dumbrell's, UNDERSTANDING ANTIQUE WINE BOTTLES, I would call your bottle a "cylindrical" wine bottle, rather than a "squat cylinder". I think of these two forms as "tall cylinders" and "squat cylinders" to make the distinction clearer. Here's a comparison:Road Dog said:
Many tall cylinders were dip-mold blown, not marvered. I cannot determine from your image if your tall cylinder was molded, but it could easily be. Look for the mold mark around the circumference of the bottle where the shoulder starts. You can see the dip-mold marks in this crude tall cylinder.
Dumbrell gives these dates for the two forms of cylinders:
Squat cylindrical wine bottles, circa 1740 to 1830
[tall] Cylindrical wine bottles, circa 1735 to 1830
(Three-piece mold cylindrical wine bottles, circa 1811 to 1900.)
I do agree with Red that the kick-up squeezed more glass into the bottom of the cylinder creating some pressure to expand. Further the glass in the kick-up became thicker, retaining more heat and plasticity while the rest of the bottle was rapidly cooling and becoming rigid. What we see as a result is slumping at the heel of the bottle.
Harry Pristis
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Re: It's all Harry's Fault
"In squat cylindrical wines the base to shoulder height is approximately 1-1/3 [1.33] times the base diameter whereas in the true cylindrical bottle the base to shoulder height is at least 1-1/2 [1.50] times the base diameter."
That is:
TRUE CYLINDER - Height of the shoulder divided by the diameter of the base gives a result of at least 1.5.
SQUAT CYLINDER - Height of the shoulder divided by the diameter of the base gives a result of approximately 1.33.
I hope you'll test your bottle against this formula. Put a ruler against the side of the bottle. Where the line of the cylinder wall starts to veer from straight is the point to take your measurement of shoulder height.
I took four bottles to test my perception against this formula, and my eye agrees with the formula.
The diameter of your bottle at the base might be more important. I found Dumbrell's formula for distinguishing between cylinders and squat cylinders. Here it is:Road Dog said:
"In squat cylindrical wines the base to shoulder height is approximately 1-1/3 [1.33] times the base diameter whereas in the true cylindrical bottle the base to shoulder height is at least 1-1/2 [1.50] times the base diameter."
That is:
TRUE CYLINDER - Height of the shoulder divided by the diameter of the base gives a result of at least 1.5.
SQUAT CYLINDER - Height of the shoulder divided by the diameter of the base gives a result of approximately 1.33.
I hope you'll test your bottle against this formula. Put a ruler against the side of the bottle. Where the line of the cylinder wall starts to veer from straight is the point to take your measurement of shoulder height.
I took four bottles to test my perception against this formula, and my eye agrees with the formula.
Likely Guy
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Re: It's all Harry's Fault
Harry, in my mind, you are the bottle guru. I'd like to thank you for all the free information that you share.
Harry, in my mind, you are the bottle guru. I'd like to thank you for all the free information that you share.
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