Jesuit dutchman

[marticus]

Hey everyone. Im from aus. So i dont really 100% know the ins and outs of the dutchmans tale. But i have just finished watched the legend of superstition mountains and their search for the dutchman.
It got me thinking. Does it seem possible that perhaps the original stash/mine was infact done by the jesuits. Re discovered my the mexican family then taken by the dutchman.

 

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[sgtfda]

Thanks for watching the show.

 

[wrmickel1]

Yeah a second season would have been nice!
But you were my favorite Sarg!

 

[wrmickel1]

Oh the Topic!

No I do not believe the Dutchmen was a Jesuit.
The order was destroyed in what 1767 give or take.
Dutchman born around 1810 became a old man then finds his Gold.
So a hundred years pass since the disbandment of the Jesuits.
I think its
a highly improbable that there is a connection.
But I do believe there a very high chance it is a Jesuit mining site!
Cause why is there a smelter in there and a crusher and a bunch of mines!
There was a quite large mining operation going on at one time.

Wrmickel1

 

[cactusjumper]

Oh the Topic!

No I do not believe the Dutchmen was a Jesuit.
The order was destroyed in what 1767 give or take.
Dutchman born around 1810 became a old man then finds his Gold.
So a hundred years pass since the disbandment of the Jesuits.
I think its
a highly improbable that there is a connection.
But I do believe there a very high chance it is a Jesuit mining site!
Cause why is there a smelter in there and a crusher and a bunch of mines!
There was a quite large mining operation going on at one time.

Wrmickel1

Wrm.,

The Jesuits of today will be shocked to hear that they were "destroyed" around 1767. Are you unaware that they were allowed to return to Mexico in 1840? Not that I believe, for a moment, that Waltz was a Jesuit.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Oh the Topic!

No I do not believe the Dutchmen was a Jesuit.
The order was destroyed in what 1767 give or take.
Dutchman born around 1810 became a old man then finds his Gold.
So a hundred years pass since the disbandment of the Jesuits.
I think its
a highly improbable that there is a connection.
But I do believe there a very high chance it is a Jesuit mining site!
Cause why is there a smelter in there and a crusher and a bunch of mines!
There was a quite large mining operation going on at one time.

Wrmickel1

Not to pick a bone over it, but why Jesuits for the mining activity, and not Spanish and/or Mexicans? The techniques and technology would be the same for any of these, and in fact many early Anglo miners used ancient methods like arrastras etc. Thank you in advance.

 

[deducer]

Wrm.,

The Jesuits of today will be shocked to hear that they were "destroyed" around 1767. Are you unaware that they were allowed to return to Mexico in 1840? Not that I believe, for a moment, that Waltz was a Jesuit.

Good luck,

Joe

Not only that, but just two centuries later, a Jesuit sits on the highest throne of the Catholic hierarchy. I suspect Clement XIV would be a little upset to discover that, if he were alive today.

 

[sdcfia]

Not only that, but just two centuries later, a Jesuit sits on the highest throne of the Catholic hierarchy. I suspect Clement XIV would be a little upset to discover that, if he were alive today.

Well, remember: "Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows."

 

[wrmickel1]

No bone picked, Zoom my Avitar, Found Some where!

 

[wrmickel1]

Wrm.,

The Jesuits of today will be shocked to hear that they were "destroyed" around 1767. Are you unaware that they were allowed to return to Mexico in 1840? Not that I believe, for a moment, that Waltz was a Jesuit.

Good luck,

Joe

Very aware Joe,

I also know Some! There seems to be a flaw in your dates! en.m.wikipeda.org
And Joe the new order of the Jesuits, is what they call them selves today. Because there past WAS BROKEN. But you know that.

Wrmickel1

 

[marticus]

Oh the Topic!

No I do not believe the Dutchmen was a Jesuit.
The order was destroyed in what 1767 give or take.
Dutchman born around 1810 became a old man then finds his Gold.
So a hundred years pass since the disbandment of the Jesuits.
I think its
a highly improbable that there is a connection.
But I do believe there a very high chance it is a Jesuit mining site!
Cause why is there a smelter in there and a crusher and a bunch of mines!
There was a quite large mining operation going on at one time.

Wrmickel1

Hey wrmickel1 i was implying the dutchman was a jesuit. Just shorthanding the idea that perhaps he found one of their source mines

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[Oroblanco]

Hey wrmickel1 i was implying the dutchman was a jesuit. Just shorthanding the idea that perhaps he found one of their source mines

I realize this was directed to Wrmickel1 however that is an interesting theory. It would explain some things too. If the Jesuits had any mines in the Superstitions, which is not impossible, it stands to reason that they would have been hidden, probably by the Indians themselves either to protect the mines for the Jesuits return or to avoid ever being forced to work in them again.

On the other hand, we have virtually no documentation of any Jesuit mines in the Superstitions. If anyone knows of any such documentation, (which would later prove very helpful to anyone that might find the mine, to help establish some kind of legal evidence for a lawsuit to obtain legal possession) I would sure appreciate if you would share it, thanks in advance.

 

[marticus]

I did it again typo. Ment to write i wasn't implying lol

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[marticus]

I realize this was directed to Wrmickel1 however that is an interesting theory. It would explain some things too. If the Jesuits had any mines in the Superstitions, which is not impossible, it stands to reason that they would have been hidden, probably by the Indians themselves either to protect the mines for the Jesuits return or to avoid ever being forced to work in them again.

On the other hand, we have virtually no documentation of any Jesuit mines in the Superstitions. If anyone knows of any such documentation, (which would later prove very helpful to anyone that might find the mine, to help establish some kind of legal evidence for a lawsuit to obtain legal possession) I would sure appreciate if you would share it, thanks in advance.

Hey oro. I cant say i know all the ins and out of the superstitions. Me being from aus we have our own sort of stories similar but not a fascinating. I only know of the docos and treasure stories about it which are very interesting. But i would like to see more on it. Im sure if some great wealth was found. The gov would be straight onto it

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[cactusjumper]

Very aware Joe,

I also know Some! There seems to be a flaw in your dates! en.m.wikipeda.org
And Joe the new order of the Jesuits, is what they call them selves today. Because there past WAS BROKEN. But you know that.

Wrmickel1

Wrm.,

I fear your research is incomplete, and you are in error.

The Jesuit Order has never been "broken". The Order was suppressed in all countries, except for Prussia and Russia. Catherine the Great had millions of Catholics, including a great number of Jesuits, who lived in the Polish provinces, which had been annexed by the Kingdom of Prussia around the time of the Pope's Bull suppressing the Order. The Order's works have been continued, unbroken, since it's formation in 1540.

There are any number of books which can inform you of Jesuit history. If you would like suggestions, I will be happy to provide them for you.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Just to show that this idea of a Jesuit connection to the Lost Dutchman is not a new idea, here is one from 1966

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=kiZPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bgEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7293,343314

Glen Magill apparently believed that Waltz had found an old Jesuit mine. I wonder what Baker Loonie would have to say about this idea, as he was a member of that team?

Please do continue;

 

[DanB]

... in the writing of this letter they talk about some miners in the Walnut Grove District asking for help from Governor goodwin.. I have the letter with Jacob waltzs signature on it... I have already posted that letter in an earlier forum for all to see.db

 

[cactusjumper]

Not only that, but just two centuries later, a Jesuit sits on the highest throne of the Catholic hierarchy. I suspect Clement XIV would be a little upset to discover that, if he were alive today.

deducer,

As I'm sure you know, Clement XIV was a Franciscan. As such he likely had little good will towards the Jesuits. Despite that, he was forced to abolish the Order "for all eternity." Before his death, around one year later, "he had often been heard to cry out, '"Mercy, mercy. Compulsus feci. I was compelled to do it.'" I don't believe he would have acted without a great deal of pressure from others, especially Spain, who had threatened to establish its own national church if he did not move against the Jesuits. Having said that, I'm not sure he would have been that upset.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

deducer,

As I'm sure you know, Clement XIV was a Franciscan. As such he likely had little good will towards the Jesuits. Despite that, he was forced to abolish the Order "for all eternity." Before his death, around one year later, "he had often been heard to cry out, '"Mercy, mercy. Compulsus feci. I was compelled to do it.'" I don't believe he would have acted without a great deal of pressure from others, especially Spain, who had threatened to establish its own national church if he did not move against the Jesuits. Having said that, I'm not sure he would have been that upset.

Take care,

Joe

cactusjumper,

Posts like this one only work to remind me of the campfire conversations that I will be missing at this years gathering.

I would say that anyone interested in the idea of Jesuit mining in the Superstitions should read: THE WORKS OF HUBERT HOWE BANCROFT VOLUME XVII - HISTORY OF ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO.


The Spanish and the Apache did experience a long period of peace. This is when any mining in the Superstitions would have been relatively safe.
That changed when the Spanish lost control of the frontier.

Even the first whites to explore the area were safe from Apache harassment until they were not.

Bancroft answers the question of 'when" it was possible.
When one compares Bancroft's timeline to the Peralta genealogy, the result is a list of potential names.

 

[marticus]

Thanks for watching the show.

Sarge. Whats the latest news mate.
Can you let us in om anything. Second season?

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