ScribbleMuse
Jr. Member
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2012
- Messages
- 44
- Reaction score
- 25
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Central Wisconsin
- Detector(s) used
- Bounty Hunter - Lone Star
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- #1
Thread Owner
Hi Everyone! I have been lurking but not posting much because Wisconsin winter sucked more than usual this year, and because it's just been one of those crazy times of life. Plus, I give up on my metal detector, which is for another thread if ever talked about, but I doubt that I'll have anything to add to the boards until I can finally replace it with a detector that will work. Till then I'll just keep hope alive while I am actually basically plowing up land by hand. With the way my detector appears to work, no one had to spend a dime to buy me one; I could have just gotten my spades and simply dug up every solid piece of ground I see and still have the rewards etc. I have now.
Anyway, the point of this thread is to make a note about jewelers and the comments I've seen here and in the various magazines I've picked up along the way about treasures and such. Part of the reason I have been so busy is that I was able to pick up an apprenticeship of sorts with a local goldsmith after I showed him some of my sculptures. It's been a million lessons and new territory and I'm loving it. The person I work with is absolutely wonderful and has opened up his shop to me in almost every way... I've not only created things i never even imagined I could ever do, but also handled some of the most amazing items of loose gems, materials, and seen some gorgeous antiques coming through for appraisals, sale from customers, etc.
So one comment that I've always seen was that you need to be wary of jewelers. It has to be true that there are some really low-class twerps out there who have shops and take business who will cheat you as soon as they can. But if you really read any of the comments you see about these experiences, it's usually the experience of a brother's cousin-in-law's best friend's old junior high teacher who once had a ring in to a jeweler for an opinion, and 30 years later the person finds out there is a CZ, not a diamond, and it must mean that the jeweler stole it.
Obviously my experience is small in the matter, but after handling a few $25,000 diamonds in the jewelry shop, and seeing the inventory of much smaller stones that are kept in "my" shop and in others, I can say with my own personal experience that this type of thing is so rare as to be safely regarded as urban legend for the most part. The rings that most people take in are a carot or less; the rings that I've seen found around here are sometimes amazing, but rarely ever MAJOR big. To have a jeweler take a piece into his/her back room out of your sight and exchange the stone would require a number of things to be in place, and it's difficult to really consider that they're so commonly in place as to require suspicion (and sometimes bordering on insults) of a perfectly reasonable shop.
First of all, the diamond would need to be worth enough to be potentially worth jail. A jeweler has access to extreme deals every day and likely has a stockpile of materials that are bought at prices ONLY available to businesses that are proven. It's true that any of us can go to ebay right now and get any of those gems and there are a myriad of other sites that provide that business. But "my" jeweler and others who are in legit business (legit here meaning their full time occupation and personally owned shops that are open to the public, not saying that anything different is not legit
) only use other resources because they need to be able to count on the quality from reputable dealers. For instance, Stuller is a common provider of materials to business jewelers. If you as a regular customer go to their site now, they would not show you their prices on their gems and I don't even think they show you their inventory of the really special ones. For those, you'd need to send in your proof of business in forms of tax records etc, and they will open you an account that allows that access. In having that, you'd have access to an inventory of gems and diamonds of all calibers and quality, amazing things. I adore it when I'm there when he gets in his orders--I never saw much special in most diamonds until I saw a few from here, and lemme tell ya, there's some beauty inside certain stones that make me want to weep. Not every stone, or every size--special ones that are just so amazing that I can't explain.
These stones are not exactly cheap for the jeweler--i.e. the $25,000 one I mentioned above was in HIS cost, not customer cost. Matter of fact, at a certain size, the retail-to-sale differences narrow so much that it's almost not any profit at all. The customer who would have that diamond made into their custom piece would have paid nearly the same amount as the retail price due all the back factors.
However, the jeweler DOES have access to unlimited hoards of diamonds that ARE much cheaper if you're talking about the typical jewelry diamond of at most 2 carats, usually MUCH less in size. The costs that are potential with switching out a customer stone are astronomically high in comparison. It is simply not worth it.
This isn't to say that I or jewelers think your stone or other stones are worthless; on the contrary most of them are much like me in my own love of them and jewelery for the sake of the beauty of them. It's just that it's too impossible to imagine a real scenario that a stone could be replaced in the typical transaction for any reasons of greed or villiany of the jeweler.
PLUS... the fact that the stones ARE unique is a huge deal. If you bring me a ring that is yours, even if it's just been in your hands for 2 hours from your latest dig, you'd notice if I brought you out a different stone after having it in a back room for 20 minutes. Especially when we get to the threads I see these warnings posted numerous times, you're talking about a unique and likely antique piece. It's going to be obvious if switched.
I would say that with all objects you care about it is obviously a good idea to be careful. There ARE plenty of people out there who WILL take advantage of you. I see that side in this as well as I see the relaxation I'm trying to spread about quality jewelers--people bring in horrendously faked crap and they're fully surprised to find that the ebay seller (or yes, one of those shady jewelers) have screwed them. It's sad and horrible, and the net opening up the world has that worry to be aware of.
My cautions to anyone with something worth anything, even sentimental value, is to simply know your own piece. Know it yourself so that you'll be confident in your ability to gauge any differences after encounters with anyone else, jeweler, friend, or family. Take a few photos and save them, as you should be doing in a regularly updated home inventory. If it is a diamond, remember that they're very difficult to harm but they're not impossible and there will be signs of wear, of it's lifetime in the piece you have. This requires a good stereoscope at least, an item I'd recommend to anyone at any time anyway. But in our hobby, a stereoscope is almost as great of an accessory to add as soon as possible as any other gear. It's easy to snap amazing photos of features you cannot see with your eyes via stereoscopes, and even the most stripped down digital camera can do this. This record of any stone in any setting would be easy to identify and pinpoint landmarks that would identify any differences if you really have questions after an encounter.
Most of all, I stress the importance of reputable businesses being your contacts. I do not mean to knock pawn shops and have been in the gamut of quality of those shops--from seedy scary to being like standing in a high-class jewelry store. Yet, many times these are staffed by people who are NOT in the business for the jewelry. They may know a lot about identification, and if you know/trust one of these, obviously don't shun them because they don't sell $25,000 gems in custom made creations. just remember that in your own businesses there are levels of expertise and in every area there are levels of quality. It's the same for jewelry, or coins, or anything else regularly mentioned in here.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to share some of my own experience and insights--again not saying that everyone is too nice to ever screw someone out of worth, but that you can eliminate much of your worry by ensuring that you're choosing a professional to gain the appraisal or repair.
Anyway, the point of this thread is to make a note about jewelers and the comments I've seen here and in the various magazines I've picked up along the way about treasures and such. Part of the reason I have been so busy is that I was able to pick up an apprenticeship of sorts with a local goldsmith after I showed him some of my sculptures. It's been a million lessons and new territory and I'm loving it. The person I work with is absolutely wonderful and has opened up his shop to me in almost every way... I've not only created things i never even imagined I could ever do, but also handled some of the most amazing items of loose gems, materials, and seen some gorgeous antiques coming through for appraisals, sale from customers, etc.
So one comment that I've always seen was that you need to be wary of jewelers. It has to be true that there are some really low-class twerps out there who have shops and take business who will cheat you as soon as they can. But if you really read any of the comments you see about these experiences, it's usually the experience of a brother's cousin-in-law's best friend's old junior high teacher who once had a ring in to a jeweler for an opinion, and 30 years later the person finds out there is a CZ, not a diamond, and it must mean that the jeweler stole it.
Obviously my experience is small in the matter, but after handling a few $25,000 diamonds in the jewelry shop, and seeing the inventory of much smaller stones that are kept in "my" shop and in others, I can say with my own personal experience that this type of thing is so rare as to be safely regarded as urban legend for the most part. The rings that most people take in are a carot or less; the rings that I've seen found around here are sometimes amazing, but rarely ever MAJOR big. To have a jeweler take a piece into his/her back room out of your sight and exchange the stone would require a number of things to be in place, and it's difficult to really consider that they're so commonly in place as to require suspicion (and sometimes bordering on insults) of a perfectly reasonable shop.
First of all, the diamond would need to be worth enough to be potentially worth jail. A jeweler has access to extreme deals every day and likely has a stockpile of materials that are bought at prices ONLY available to businesses that are proven. It's true that any of us can go to ebay right now and get any of those gems and there are a myriad of other sites that provide that business. But "my" jeweler and others who are in legit business (legit here meaning their full time occupation and personally owned shops that are open to the public, not saying that anything different is not legit
) only use other resources because they need to be able to count on the quality from reputable dealers. For instance, Stuller is a common provider of materials to business jewelers. If you as a regular customer go to their site now, they would not show you their prices on their gems and I don't even think they show you their inventory of the really special ones. For those, you'd need to send in your proof of business in forms of tax records etc, and they will open you an account that allows that access. In having that, you'd have access to an inventory of gems and diamonds of all calibers and quality, amazing things. I adore it when I'm there when he gets in his orders--I never saw much special in most diamonds until I saw a few from here, and lemme tell ya, there's some beauty inside certain stones that make me want to weep. Not every stone, or every size--special ones that are just so amazing that I can't explain. These stones are not exactly cheap for the jeweler--i.e. the $25,000 one I mentioned above was in HIS cost, not customer cost. Matter of fact, at a certain size, the retail-to-sale differences narrow so much that it's almost not any profit at all. The customer who would have that diamond made into their custom piece would have paid nearly the same amount as the retail price due all the back factors.
However, the jeweler DOES have access to unlimited hoards of diamonds that ARE much cheaper if you're talking about the typical jewelry diamond of at most 2 carats, usually MUCH less in size. The costs that are potential with switching out a customer stone are astronomically high in comparison. It is simply not worth it.
This isn't to say that I or jewelers think your stone or other stones are worthless; on the contrary most of them are much like me in my own love of them and jewelery for the sake of the beauty of them. It's just that it's too impossible to imagine a real scenario that a stone could be replaced in the typical transaction for any reasons of greed or villiany of the jeweler.
PLUS... the fact that the stones ARE unique is a huge deal. If you bring me a ring that is yours, even if it's just been in your hands for 2 hours from your latest dig, you'd notice if I brought you out a different stone after having it in a back room for 20 minutes. Especially when we get to the threads I see these warnings posted numerous times, you're talking about a unique and likely antique piece. It's going to be obvious if switched.
I would say that with all objects you care about it is obviously a good idea to be careful. There ARE plenty of people out there who WILL take advantage of you. I see that side in this as well as I see the relaxation I'm trying to spread about quality jewelers--people bring in horrendously faked crap and they're fully surprised to find that the ebay seller (or yes, one of those shady jewelers) have screwed them. It's sad and horrible, and the net opening up the world has that worry to be aware of.
My cautions to anyone with something worth anything, even sentimental value, is to simply know your own piece. Know it yourself so that you'll be confident in your ability to gauge any differences after encounters with anyone else, jeweler, friend, or family. Take a few photos and save them, as you should be doing in a regularly updated home inventory. If it is a diamond, remember that they're very difficult to harm but they're not impossible and there will be signs of wear, of it's lifetime in the piece you have. This requires a good stereoscope at least, an item I'd recommend to anyone at any time anyway. But in our hobby, a stereoscope is almost as great of an accessory to add as soon as possible as any other gear. It's easy to snap amazing photos of features you cannot see with your eyes via stereoscopes, and even the most stripped down digital camera can do this. This record of any stone in any setting would be easy to identify and pinpoint landmarks that would identify any differences if you really have questions after an encounter.
Most of all, I stress the importance of reputable businesses being your contacts. I do not mean to knock pawn shops and have been in the gamut of quality of those shops--from seedy scary to being like standing in a high-class jewelry store. Yet, many times these are staffed by people who are NOT in the business for the jewelry. They may know a lot about identification, and if you know/trust one of these, obviously don't shun them because they don't sell $25,000 gems in custom made creations. just remember that in your own businesses there are levels of expertise and in every area there are levels of quality. It's the same for jewelry, or coins, or anything else regularly mentioned in here.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to share some of my own experience and insights--again not saying that everyone is too nice to ever screw someone out of worth, but that you can eliminate much of your worry by ensuring that you're choosing a professional to gain the appraisal or repair.
, but considering the millions of them, maybe billions being hoarded,
