Just Another Clues Thread

[somehiker]

So native tougue was most likely the norm then.

babymick1

Not then, but thanks to special interest groups and compliant politicos, it's headed that way.
While there has always been an understandable desire amongst migrants to retain their languages and customs, and to maintain ties with those who share the same as a means to that end, it doesn't serve unity. I think for most back then, including Julia, Rhiney and Waltz, learning and using the official language of the US, would have been a priority.

 

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[PotBelly Jim]

I guess we're lucky the Trudeau's weren't in charge in Phoenix, Waltz would have had to give his deathbed confession in French? Didn't know if that's what you meant, Wayne...I tune into the AM station out of Hamilton every now and then.

All good points above (not sure about Holmes being a German name, seems English) but another possibility might be, since he had been an American much longer than he had ever been a German...it's quite possible he was used to, and able to naturally speak, both English and German without much trouble.

 

[Oroblanco]

I would say we have fairly good reason to doubt the Holmes tale of having obtained the whole story from Waltz on his deathbed. As has been pointed out, dying of pneumonia, doesn't seem likely that a man would want to tell a long and complicated story when he is fighting for every breath of air. Of course it is certainly possible. However Holmes actions did not follow his own supposed tale, and we know of at least a couple of points of fact in his story that are provably false. Rather it looks like Holmes simply confabulated the several tales of lost, rich mines in the Superstitions (which were in circulation in Phoenix 1890) on the assumption that it has to be all talking about the LDM and proceeded from there.

 

[azdave35]

I would say we have fairly good reason to doubt the Holmes tale of having obtained the whole story from Waltz on his deathbed. As has been pointed out, dying of pneumonia, doesn't seem likely that a man would want to tell a long and complicated story when he is fighting for every breath of air. Of course it is certainly possible. However Holmes actions did not follow his own supposed tale, and we know of at least a couple of points of fact in his story that are provably false. Rather it looks like Holmes simply confabulated the several tales of lost, rich mines in the Superstitions (which were in circulation in Phoenix 1890) on the assumption that it has to be all talking about the LDM and proceeded from there.

true roy...and basically there is only one man alive who knows what brownie really said and that was brownies partner of many years...and i doubt if he will ever write a book...it will probably go with him when he goes

 

[deducer]

true roy...and basically there is only one man alive who knows what brownie really said and that was brownies partner of many years...and i doubt if he will ever write a book...it will probably go with him when he goes

He's invited to dinner too.

 

[Oroblanco]

He's invited to dinner too.

Clay or myself? Just kidding amigo I don't have a passport anyway.

 

[markmar]

true roy...and basically there is only one man alive who knows what brownie really said and that was brownies partner of many years...and i doubt if he will ever write a book...it will probably go with him when he goes

Dave

I believe Clay is not the only man who knows what Brownie really said, because about many years Matthew Roberts is the new partner of Clay and they have shared each other what they knew about LDM and Superstitions history.
Maybe Matthew, who possess a writing talent, would think to write a book in the future.

 

[azdave35]

Dave

I believe Clay is not the only man who knows what Brownie really said, because about many years Matthew Roberts is the new partner of Clay and they have shared each other what they knew about LDM and Superstitions history.
Maybe Matthew, who possess a writing talent, would think to write a book in the future.

marius...you may be correct on that...time will tell i guess

 

[deducer]

Clay or myself? Just kidding amigo I don't have a passport anyway.

Where are you, Roy?

 

[Bonzai]

Hello, new to the site...LDM has fascinated my since I moved here nearly 20 years ago. wondering what you think about the Woodbury fire making it easier to find mines now that 70 years of desert brush is gone

 

[gollum]

true roy...and basically there is only one man alive who knows what brownie really said and that was brownies partner of many years...and i doubt if he will ever write a book...it will probably go with him when he goes

Dave,

Clay ends EVERY Lost Dutchman Speech with the same statement: "Clay; I'll never know if the Dutchman lied to my father. But I do know two things; My father never lied to me, and I've never lied to you."

Go to 36:15 for this part.

Mike

 

[deducer]

Yet there are a number of things that just don't add up.

It's possible for Dick Holmes not to have lied- but to have manipulated facts, or to have issued white lies.

 

[Oroblanco]

Where are you, Roy?

The Black Hills of South Dakota.

Bonzai- Welcome to Treasurenet! I would say that yes indeed the fire MIGHT make it easier to spot a hidden mine, and the likelihood of landslides to follow (if it rains of course) could easily uncover a mine that has been hidden for decades.

Mike wrote

Dave,

Clay ends EVERY Lost Dutchman Speech with the same statement: "Clay; I'll never know if the Dutchman lied to my father. But I do know two things; My father never lied to me, and I've never lied to you."

Go to 36:15 for this part.

Mike

Not to answer for Dave, but are you ruling out the possibility that Waltz himself had LIED to Holmes? It could even be why that odd statement attributed to Waltz during his deathbed "confession" in which he begs God for forgiveness - perhaps he was asking forgiveness for lying to Holmes?

 

[deducer]

The Black Hills of South Dakota.

In that case, you don't need a passport to get down here. You're invited to dinner if you can make it.

 

[gollum]

Roy,

I admit that it is a real conundrum. We ONLY have Dick Holmes' version of what happened. It was proved (IIRC) that Alkire was not even there. Some believe Holmes came in after Waltz' Death and stole the ore.

That said, as I have said many times, watch a persons actions: Dick Holmes tried to find the LDM and when he couldn't go on, he sent his son Brownie into the mountains for about 40 years. To me, that sounds/looks like someone who got a clue from Waltz.

Mike

 

[Bonzai]

also wondering if you know of hiking groups that go looking for mines in the Mesa, AJ area

 

[wrmickel1]

Roy,

I admit that it is a real conundrum. We ONLY have Dick Holmes' version of what happened. It was proved (IIRC) that Alkire was not even there. Some believe Holmes came in after Waltz' Death and stole the ore.

That said, as I have said many times, watch a persons actions: Dick Holmes tried to find the LDM and when he couldn't go on, he sent his son Brownie into the mountains for about 40 years. To me, that sounds/looks like someone who got a clue from Waltz.

Mike

Mike

I think your close, But to me it sounds like someone probably seen the gold Waltz was selling or the stories of the Gold.
Then the paper reporting of the Quest, by Julia. Then enters Dick into the search after Julia came back empty Handed.
He used the clues that were being published at the time.

Babymick1

 

[wrmickel1]

Yet there are a number of things that just don't add up.

It's possible for Dick Holmes not to have lied- but to have manipulated facts, or to have issued white lies.

its still a lie

babymick1

 

[PotBelly Jim]

There you go again, Mick. How do you know that Dick Holmes ever said anything that's been attributed to him? You got him on tape or something? When there's such uncertainty as to who said what, perhaps it's better not to use the term "Lie" or "Liar". Do what you want, I'm not going to keep busting your knuckles over this, as I'm pretty sure you're un-trainable at this point!

 

[azdave35]

There you go again, Mick. How do you know that Dick Holmes ever said anything that's been attributed to him? You got him on tape or something? When there's such uncertainty as to who said what, perhaps it's better not to use the term "Lie" or "Liar". Do what you want, I'm not going to keep busting your knuckles over this, as I'm pretty sure you're un-trainable at this point!

lol....not sure but i thought we kinda determined that the ore mick has is pyrite last time he posted these pics