Just Watched Calabash's Rant on American Metal Detector Companies

Terry Soloman

Gold Member
May 28, 2010
18,756
28,073
White Plains, New York
Detector(s) used
Minelab GPZ 7000// Vanquish 540// Nokta Simplex Plus// Nokta Pulsedive// Minelab Pro Find 35// Dune Kraken Sandscoop// Grave Digger Tools Tombstone shovel & Sidekick digger// Bunk's Hermit Pick
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
What's YOUR opinion? Does he have a good point? I have to be honest, I couldn't believe he's wearing Crocs, and the toilet paper was distracting, but after I got over myself I heard the point he is making. I guess I'm just not as concerned about it. We already know who the posers are - hell, they are self-evident. New guys getting conned? I know it happens, I just.. CROCs? Really?:tongue3::thumbsup:

 
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Irishgoldhound

Bronze Member
Jul 15, 2013
2,280
1,990
Thats a good point! I would like to buy a new metal detector, and I like the idea of the nox because it is waterproof. If it starts raining I like to keep hunting. But yet, I watch these guys on youtube doing live digs with these machines and they are pulling large wads of foil and zinc pennies. My Tesoro Tejon does not do these things and it's running on 18-year-old technology.

As far as Crocs go, down here where I'm at, that would be a no-go. We have rattlesnakes, and you never know if you're going to run into a bear with cubs or rabid coyotes. I wear Georga boots, the tall ones.

Nox is not water proof.. more like water resistant. crocs are more suited for water than the Equinox.
 

releventchair

Gold Member
May 9, 2012
16,110
33,349
Primary Interest:
Other
I start each spring with what might as well be a new detector , having forgot much over the winter.
By the time decent hours are on it , it's getting dry soil. Or tall growth , or just other things breaking the hunts into being longer spaced.

If an upgrade suits someone , then reviews are where to start looking. Unless a particular unit is already desired.

Nothing is good without a good demonstration.
Then the new user has to be able to duplicate the basics to get started. Then log hours till the honeymoon is over to really know how compatible the new unit and the user are.
To each thier own. It's great there are options available.

Go Garret! L.o.l..
 

eyemustdigtreasure

Silver Member
Mar 2, 2013
3,005
4,521
California
Detector(s) used
Fisher Gold Bug Pro
Tesoro Cibola
Nokta Pointer; Phillips SHS5200 phones
Nokta Macro SIMPLEX
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
It took Technology near 13 years to catch up to MY Patience...!
Using an Analog machine (Tesoro) for so many years, I relied heavily on the tones, and on the Bug, the numbers....
I am now ready to step up a bit, and try a smarter machine...!
 

smokeythecat

Gold Member
Nov 22, 2012
19,662
37,445
Maryland
Detector(s) used
XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel
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All Treasure Hunting
I have two sites, one is 1,000 acres and no house sites so I got a new Tesoro Tejon, it goes very deep and you don't need a vdi for this site, it's a dig everything site. It should be here by Thursday. I couldn't find a Vaquero for sale. I've had both machines.
 

Woodsy

Sr. Member
Oct 26, 2018
304
211
Michigan
Detector(s) used
Tesoro Tejon, Outlaw, Minelab Equinox 800, E-trac
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
I have two sites, one is 1,000 acres and no house sites so I got a new Tesoro Tejon, it goes very deep and you don't need a vdi for this site, it's a dig everything site. It should be here by Thursday. I couldn't find a Vaquero for sale. I've had both machines.

It seems that the Vaqs have completely disappeared from the face of the earth. There was a guy on this forum that offered me a nice one for about $300.00 a couple of years ago. I sure wish now I would have nabbed it up.

Also, it looks like you grabbed the second from the last of the Tejons. Congratulations!
 

smokeythecat

Gold Member
Nov 22, 2012
19,662
37,445
Maryland
Detector(s) used
XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel
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All Treasure Hunting
Good thing is I have someone who could fix it if it ever broke. It is a special use machine. Although I did find some really nice stuff with the one I had before. I pulled about 50 Civil War buttons out of this one little place before I got my Deus. Then I got more buttons!
 

Woodsy

Sr. Member
Oct 26, 2018
304
211
Michigan
Detector(s) used
Tesoro Tejon, Outlaw, Minelab Equinox 800, E-trac
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Good thing is I have someone who could fix it if it ever broke. It is a special use machine. Although I did find some really nice stuff with the one I had before. I pulled about 50 Civil War buttons out of this one little place before I got my Deus. Then I got more buttons!

I do wonder a bit why you didn't go with the Outlaw seeing that it is a lighter machine?
 

smokeythecat

Gold Member
Nov 22, 2012
19,662
37,445
Maryland
Detector(s) used
XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I like the dual discrimination circuit.
 

Lost Signal

Hero Member
Mar 5, 2019
587
2,061
Lowcountry SC
Detector(s) used
Equinox 600, Garrett 400
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
You can see from my profile that I've been using a Garrett 400. I'm very in tune with it and have found some good stuff. I've been detecting next to mbcuce and his Nox for a year, so it's almost been like an extended experiment. His machine is better, but I don't regret using the Garrett. mbcuce will get on a small spot and spend a whole afternoon digging deep signals, stuff I don't even pick up. So, I get happy-feet and take off walking. As a result, I have a lot of big stuff, low hanging fruit, in my collection of relics. I'm also usually the one, who finds the new areas. Then he comes in and "bottom feeds." The other day I found this tiny bit of silver ring (see below) at a colonial site, so the 400 can do a good job.

But, my best find, my USA button, was found with the Nox. We were taking turns because the Garrett would not work properly in the muddy conditions where we were searching. Since then my wife has heard a lot of whining about the Nox and on Valentines Day she presented me with a receipt for an Equinox 600. It was snowed-in in Texas but finally arrived today. She's either the best wife ever or she feels guilty about something she's hiding. Either way it's is a win for me - I think. It depends on what she might be hiding.

Anyway, the point of all this is that the value/performance equation will be different for everyone. I would not have bought myself the equinox and would have continued to have fun, but I'm glad to have it.

As for American versus Others, I don't know. If a company can get people to pay the same amount for an inferior product, I guess that's just how the world works. If the market tells them that they have to improve, they can just copy a competitor's design. That's also how the world works.
ring.jpg
 

smokeythecat

Gold Member
Nov 22, 2012
19,662
37,445
Maryland
Detector(s) used
XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Here's a question for the real slide rule owning "experts" out there. Any machine has to "process" the signal it gets from the coil. No ifs, ands or buts about that. Now my question, based on logic is this - if that signal has to pass through 10 logarithmic functions to get to your ears or VDI, and another machine only has the go through 4 of the said functions, will you lost either recovery time or depth of target ID in the process? You will lose something, its like jumping over 5 snakes in the woods instead of only 1. Takes time. And effort.

When thinking of newer cars, some of them will outthink us, so to speak and when they break, it's hells bells. The older ones, you'd go and harshly stare at it and it would be ok - not a literal thing, but I think you get the drift.
 

SGT WHITEY

Jr. Member
Jan 29, 2021
49
103
North Carolina
Detector(s) used
Whites and Garrett
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Personally... I have NEVER been one to bash a company or detector. I know its about learning your machine and soil conditions. I know I can find something with any machine. Are there some that perform better than others absolutely. I know I have only used Whites and Garrett in my short carrier.. Minus a bounty hunter in the late 90's. I have hunted in many different types of soils, open fields, trashy sites and have done well with a few different machines. I am not saying his video is wrong or misleading by any means. I personally have not ran these test for myself or seen it done first hand. But would be willing to put the DEUS, MINELAB, GARRETT and NOKTA to a VS's test. I am curious to see what they do, how they preform and which one operates the best.
What's YOUR opinion? Does he have a good point? I have to be honest, I couldn't believe he's wearing Crocs, and the toilet paper was distracting, but after I got over myself I heard the point he is making. I guess I'm just not as concerned about it. We already know who the posers are - hell, they are self-evident. New guys getting conned? I know it happens, I just.. CROCs? Really?:tongue3::thumbsup:

 

TheGreenBoy

Sr. Member
Nov 10, 2017
312
331
Countryside
Detector(s) used
DBP2010, eeTH, tx850
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Here's a question for the real slide rule owning "experts" out there. Any machine has to "process" the signal it gets from the coil. No ifs, ands or buts about that. Now my question, based on logic is this - if that signal has to pass through 10 logarithmic functions to get to your ears or VDI, and another machine only has the go through 4 of the said functions, will you lost either recovery time or depth of target ID in the process? You will lose something, its like jumping over 5 snakes in the woods instead of only 1. Takes time. And effort.

When thinking of newer cars, some of them will outthink us, so to speak and when they break, it's hells bells. The older ones, you'd go and harshly stare at it and it would be ok - not a literal thing, but I think you get the drift.

This used to be true with older digital detectors. Modern processor ICs are so fast this is no longer an issue - they can do 10.000 log functions before you can blink your eye, do not worry.
 

fishstick

Bronze Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,714
1,319
Indiana
Detector(s) used
Fisher F5, T2SE, F2 for the boys, XP Deus
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Personally... I have NEVER been one to bash a company or detector. I know its about learning your machine and soil conditions. I know I can find something with any machine. Are there some that perform better than others absolutely. I know I have only used Whites and Garrett in my short carrier.. Minus a bounty hunter in the late 90's. I have hunted in many different types of soils, open fields, trashy sites and have done well with a few different machines. I am not saying his video is wrong or misleading by any means. I personally have not ran these test for myself or seen it done first hand. But would be willing to put the DEUS, MINELAB, GARRETT and NOKTA to a VS's test. I am curious to see what they do, how they preform and which one operates the best.

CB has a lot a DIF videos for such tests you are asking about.
 

billb

Bronze Member
Sep 23, 2010
1,869
2,770
Upstate NY
Detector(s) used
Excalibur2,,silver sabre
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Years ago with the $150 fisher 1210x I hit a 1864 2 cent pc.Just shows that sometimes cheap works also
 

Woodsy

Sr. Member
Oct 26, 2018
304
211
Michigan
Detector(s) used
Tesoro Tejon, Outlaw, Minelab Equinox 800, E-trac
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Welp, after learning that @smokeythecat snuck over to ebay and bought the second from last of the Tejons, I lost control and tipped toed over there and purchased the last Outlaw with the 8-inch donut. With the ED180 on the Tejon and the ED120 on the Outlaw, throw a Vaquero in the middle and you have a pretty sweet little tool kit. New technology is great and I plan on picking up a Nox for some ruff weather hunting this spring, but there is something that can't be denied when it comes to these old classic VLF capacitor beast that just makes for some exciting hunts. Plus I love loaning one to a friend that wants to come hunting but has no detector. The look on their face when you turn one on and tell them to start swinging is just priceless, hehe.

For a professional treasure hunter, there will always be an extra spot in the garage for an old classic or two. RIP to Tesoro, Whites, and any other companies that fail to keep up with new tech. They will always be in our hearts and dearly missed.

On a sad note, I do believe that Tesoro could have stayed in business if they would have hammered out some duel tone machines and put a cabosh to the lifetime warranty.
 
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Xraywolf

Silver Member
Feb 28, 2005
3,576
4,347
MI USA
Detector(s) used
Ace 400, AT Pro, equinox 800, Simplex,Vanquish 540
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
This used to be true with older digital detectors. Modern processor ICs are so fast this is no longer an issue - they can do 10.000 log functions before you can blink your eye, do not worry.

Has been my 1st hand observation that modern detectors [nox, vanquish and simplex] can and do have "recovery speed" issues compared to a simple swing and beep machine like the Ace 400.
With some tweaking and/or using different modes, this can be mitigated, but it for sure can be an issue.
I noticed it with the simplex when I was detecting a once in a lifetime street tearout in a historic civil war era facility, when I went to its deepest seeking mode recovery speed was terrible, I switched to "park 2" I think it was and was significantly better. I decided to go with the deep seeking mode but swing at a snails pace, at a spot like that I didn't mind taking half a day and slowly go through it with a fine tooth comb.

I noticed it with the Vanquish at a beach where I typically like to swing fast, recovery was terrible, tested it with a ring right on the surface and it did not alert 4 swings out of 5, a significant handicap when you want to cover a large area quickly. I didn't want to waste time trying to figure a solution so I switched to the 400, which alerted 5 times out of 5.
So, while I think both the Vanquish and the Simplex are overall superior to the 400 [and certainly have more features for being in the same price range], it can come at a price that most folks would not be aware of. Really, with any detector, the slower your sweeps the more likely you are to find elusive targets, so people need to keep this in mind depending on what type of hunting they are doing.
 

TheGreenBoy

Sr. Member
Nov 10, 2017
312
331
Countryside
Detector(s) used
DBP2010, eeTH, tx850
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
This is correct observation, but it is not due to speed of ICs, rather it is the concequense of underlaying phisical limitations of VLF machines. It has to do with the sampling time of the circuit that analyse what's comming from the RX part of your coil. This time is usually hard wired in analog devices while it can be set in digital ones, though not always by the end user. If the detector gathers relative small amouth of data before analysing an reporting it, it will work faster, but sensitivity, depth and VDI acuracy will be impared. On the other hand, if amouth of gathered data is large, the maschine will be deeper, more sensitive on small items and it will have more acurate VDI, but the recovery speed will suffer. The detectors are usually designed for the best compromise.

Let's look at the example: suppose the treasure huter makes one swing per second and covers 1m, using 20cm wide coil. The time coil traveles over the coin is rufly 0.2s. This is the time the detector has to gather the data. If the hunter uses 2s per swing, this would be twice the amouth of data, which could make the difference between signal and no signal. 3s per swing however, might not mean any aditional data since the machine close the sampling interval.
Of course the solution seems to be in pushing the detector to gether more data in shorter time, but for that the machine would have to run on higher frequency. That means higher power dissipiation and eventualy shorter penetration. This is one of the reasons the prospecting detectors runs on higher frequencies, they are very sensitive, but than again not as deep.
 

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