Kinda Stumped Here, Is this thing real or fake. Civil War related

[bigcaddy64]

Hi everybody, this is my first time posting and was directed here by a member of another forum for tools.

I frequent estate sales and find my own type of buried treasure above ground although i did find a coin from the El Cazador so technically have found "sunken treasure"


Yesterday i was digging through a garage and found what i thought was a bino/compass case attached to a leather belt in the bottom shelf in a cupboard. I took it home and forgot about it since it was low on my list of items to inspect/sort for the day.

I got a better look at it this morning and was surprised to find the brass buckle of the belt hidden behind the large bino pouch. It was clearly marked US

After some looking online, i think the whole setup is Civil War and not a bino pouch but a lead shot/percussion cap/ belt and buckle. There are some stamps in the leather and the percussion cap pouch even has a little wire poker to clean out the percussion cap nipple when it gets fouled.


Can anybody verify if this is the real deal? The buckle is in extremely good shape for its age but it has been stuffed in a garage for a long time so not really exposed to the elements . The leather shows its age but the details seem to point in the direction of real. Most fakes of anything seem to cut corners and ignore detail.

 

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[vpnavy]

Nice finds bigcaddy64!

 

[ret-detector]

Welcome...

from Central Florida!

Cool find...

ret

 

[Whatacoin]

That's a hard one to tell but it would be a simply amazing find with the belt and all. Hope to hear more of this.

 

[Argentium]

I can't wait to hear what the CW specialists have to say about these finds - to my eye it all looks right - but I'm no expert
on authentic vs. knockoffs ,for militaria of any kind . The leather has quite an honest sort of "wear and tear" or patina ,
so if I had to give an opinion , I'm leaning heavily toward authentic .

 

[genlee]

First thing is to go here and compare

Ridgeway Civil War reference archive

This is a good place to start.

I would venture that, there is a possibility that is it from a re-enactor, they do try to make their gear look authentic. If it is real then that is a great find.

And even if it is not authentic, it is still a very nice find as that kind of equipment is expensive.


John

 

[HutSiteDigger]

The leather pouch almost looks legit! though I have 1 little worry that may or may not be something. The yellow stitching on the front under the US plate looks more fresh and colorful like it may have been done in modern times and also on the back there is a some stitching that may look modern done attaching the leather strap and down in the center (using the same style stitching they would have used during the CW).

The one in the photo is a real US leather pouch and you can tell the stitching does not look bright and fresh! However depending on how this leather pouch was kept over the years it could have this good of stitching left over like on you're pouch on the front. To me it looks 70% legit the wear and tear looks legit and so does lot of the rest of it.... But I would question some of the stitching and also look @ the way the US plate is put on the leather pouch you can sometimes clearly see that the US plate was put on there during modern times. These pouches can be hard too legit it or not online.... this is the type of artifact that would have too be checked out with hands on and also size and measurements can determine too a expert if it is real or not.

 

[Argentium]

Hey , what am I missing here ? where is the interest and the expertise as to the authenticity of these pieces C'mon ! How
many times do you CW guys and gals put up your bullets ad nauseum , and we get 6 responders to these fascinating items !
Wow !

 

[capt-zero]

I agree with you Argentium. Fascinating find either way.

 

[Whatacoin]

Hey , what am I missing here ? where is the interest and the expertise as to the authenticity of these pieces C'mon ! How
many times do you CW guys and gals put up your bullets ad nauseum , and we get 6 responders to these fascinating items !
Wow !

Exactly. I keep checking back to see if there's anything new. Come on you Civil War guys!

 

[Tnmountains]

I am no expert but it all looks authentic to me. It is rare to find it all together. I do not think it is from a re-enactor due to the age of the leather. You want worn not old .Can you read the leather stamp I see the U.S in it. It could say Allegheny or sprinfield or Boyds and sons?
Thanks

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Pretty sure everything you have is the legit deal at least im sticking with my 70%. It all looks right but again really something that needs too be looked @ hands on, if this was Confederate artifacts boy thats awhole different ball game. Good luck with all this and thanks for sharing!

 

[yelnif]

Hello bigcaddy64, I'm not the expert that you want but I have done a lot of leather work, used to be in the mountain man era and made all my own outfit as well as some for others. My mentor at the time was world renowned saddlemaker, Biff Davis, and he taught me a lot about leather so that is why I'll offer my .02.

In pic #1 the condition of the leather although old, does not look dry enough. The "US" should also look aged and it doesn't? There is also the horizontal stitching just above the 'snap'? Looks machine stitched? The bullet/patch pouch has a stamp on it- what does it say? close-up pic?

Pic #2 I think is an old document pouch which has been added to the larger pouch. It also looks to have modern machine stitching on it. The two pouch's were sewn together by hand.

Pic #3- not really sure what it is or says??

Pic #4+ #5 Pretty sure it's a repro- seems too curved/ convexed and the letters aren't right. The reverse looks kinda right but the patina/ staining looks chemical to me. The ageing on the reverse doesn't match with the near pristine face of the buckle. The green is there from being in contact with the leather/ in storage.

But I I think you have a CW reenactors out fit, I really would have a hands on expert look at it though because storage conditions can really affect leather, and I do believe they are old pouch's( just brought together recently- in the last 30yrs or so). And I'm basing my view on the buckle from some that I have seen at reenactment at CW sites- Battle at Honey Creek, Okla. Looks the same to me. Great find and even if not genuine it is worth $$$. HH yelnif

 

[Southern loyalist]

It will be extremely hard to authenticate using these photos, please take it to a reputable dealer and have them take a look at it as there are many possibilities as to what it can be including but not limited to:
--the real deal brought home by a soldier
--a Bannerman'a surplus rig, still the real deal
--a Bannermans rig used during the Centennial celebrations
--an older reproduction with appropriate storage mildew and cracking
--a more recent repro with appropriate storage mildew and cracking
--a Hollywood movie is prop

 

[Thommy]

I hate to use the term "Expert", but I was the Artifact Conservator for the largest collection of Civil War artifacts from a single site (the Maple Leaf Shipwreck). I worked on lots of cartridge boxes and belt/belt-plates, and I have owned/own several cartridge boxes from the CW era. What you have is real. Not fake. The cartridge box is a 1864 pattern. I am also a Civil War reenactor for 30 years now, and I can spot a repro a mile away. What you have is NOT a reenactor's kit. It's real. The belt plate and belt look great. Wipe away the verdigris (green copper oxide) but DO NOT SHINE THE BRASS OR SOAK THE LEATHER WITH ANY PRESERVATIVES. The leather is stable, soaking it with neetsfoot oil or mink oil will change the chemistry and may actually speed up the decay process. It needs to be stored in an acid-free box (not that hard to get), in a dry place that does not get very hot or cold. CONGRATS, you have a nice set of Civil War leathers.

 

[Clay Slayer]

Hey , what am I missing here ? where is the interest and the expertise as to the authenticity of these pieces C'mon ! How
many times do you CW guys and gals put up your bullets ad nauseum , and we get 6 responders to these fascinating items !
Wow !

You know there is a forum dedicated to Civil War items, right? Move this post over there and you'll probably get many more responses more quickly...