Known Treasure Wrecks undiscovered

[Alexandre]

Just picking on this old thread: Brazil has just issued a permit for the search of the "Santa Rosa", rumored to have sunk with anywhere from 5 to 26 tons of gold coins and bullion on board.

 

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[ARC]

Just picking on this old thread: Brazil has just issued a permit for the search of the "Santa Rosa", rumored to have sunk with anywhere from 5 to 26 tons of gold coins and bullion on board.

But of course they did... They need that money.

 

[Darren in NC]

I couldn't find it online. To whom was the permit issued, Alexandre?

 

[Alexandre]

I couldn't find it online. To whom was the permit issued, Alexandre?

It's all hush hush, but the word that goes around says that Odysseys is involved together with local salvager Salvanav. Again, just hearsay, cannot confirm the validity of it.


"02- Processo n. º 01450.004687/2018-54
Projeto: Arqueologia da Nau Santa Rosa
Arqueólogos Coordenadores: Simone de Sousa Mesquita e Luiz Fernando de Castro Cunha
Apoio Institucional: Museu Naval da Marinha - Rio de Janeiro
Área de Abrangência: Estados de Pernambuco e Paraíba
Prazo de Validade: 18 (dezoito) meses"

this from:

PORTARIA Nº 38, DE 7 DE JUNHO DE 2019 - PORTARIA Nº 38, DE 7 DE JUNHO DE 2019 - DOU - Imprensa Nacional

 

[xaos]

Wasnt that Stemms brother down there leading that search? (years ago?)

 

[Alexandre]

It was, with Conpas, Pesqamar and Salvanav.

 

[Alexandre]

Just been to the archives today, this is the 1st of 3 books containing the gold cargo manifest from the "Nossa Senhora da Nazareth" frigate, the companion ship to the "Santa Rosa" that took on board people and gold from the burning ship.

"Livro do manifesto do Cofre 1º do dinheiro que veyo na fragata Nossa Senhora da Nazareth, que vindo por Almyranta da frota da Bahia, se recolheo a Lixboa fazendo a obrigação de capitania por se aver queimado no mar accidentalmente a Nao Capitania Santa Roza / e se recolheo em 22 de Novembro de 1726 a cargo do capitam de mar, e guerra Pedro de Oliveira Muge/ Livro 1º / Fragata Nossa Senhora da Nazareth" - "Cargo manifest book for the treasure chest number 1 of the money that came on the Our Lady of Nazareth frigate, that came as Almiranta of the Bahia fleet, arriving at Lisbon as a capitana, because by accident the Nao Santa Rosa was burned at sea, and arrived on November, the 22th 1726, under the command of sea-and-war captain Pedro de Oliveira Muge"

 

[enrada]

Alexandre
Just floors me the amount of knowledge and research skill available from people like you here on Treasurenet. Could you imagine an archaeology site sharing info like this!!

 

[Alexandre]

I am an archaeologist sharing sensitive information with treasure hunters... maybe I will burn in the Archaeologist's Hell!

 

[enrada]

A sure sign of what we could all achieve if ALL Archaeologists like you would work together. Ok, I am just dreamin a little bit!!

 

[Boatlode]

I don't think the 1563 fleet has been located yet.

 

[Rum Tide]

There are over 3 Million shipwrecks.
Less then 1% have been explored.

 

[Marine Archaeology Int.]

Those who know me, know that I'm a huge fan of the 1605 fleet. The San Jose might be the richest shipwreck ever, but at an estimated 8 million pesos it cannot compete with the alleged $6-7 millones pesos of the San Roque, Capitana, $6-7 million of the Santo Domingo, Almiranta, and the $2-3 million that the Nuestra Sra. de las Begonias and San Ambrosio carried, the four shipwrecked vessels of D. Fernandez de Cordoba, lost on November 6th, 1605.

The fact that these shipwrecks are intact, probably in shallow waters, and probably within a country, Colombia, where, at least in paper, is it legal to recover them, makes them the best treasure shipwreck project in the world in my opinion. It is a shame, that the new president in Colombia is making thing murky for the discovery team that found the San Jose. Because of that, 1605 will have to wait until the San Jose is resolved and/or presidente Duke is out of office.

 

[Tanneyhill]

Those who know me, know that I'm a huge fan of the 1605 fleet. The San Jose might be the richest shipwreck ever, but at an estimated 8 million pesos it cannot compete with the alleged $6-7 millones pesos of the San Roque, Capitana, $6-7 million of the Santo Domingo, Almiranta, and the $2-3 million that the Nuestra Sra. de las Begonias and San Ambrosio carried, the four shipwrecked vessels of D. Fernandez de Cordoba, lost on November 6th, 1605.

The fact that these shipwrecks are intact, probably in shallow waters, and probably within a country, Colombia

Old thread, but reviving discussion about most valuable unfound wrecks. Regarding the 1605 fleet - were the wreck sites of this fleet located? I know San Jose is known and Colombia is beginning to salvage this year.

Anything come of the Santa Rosa 1726 off the coast of Brazil?

 

[Colombiapictures]

Old thread, but reviving discussion about most valuable unfound wrecks. Regarding the 1605 fleet - were the wreck sites of this fleet located? I know San Jose is known and Colombia is beginning to salvage this year.

Anything come of the Santa Rosa 1726 off the coast of Brazil?

Undiscovered treasure galleons

Huguette and Pierre Chaunu, SEVILLE ET L’ATLANTIQUE, vol. IV, p. 200 The San Martin and the San Gregorio returned to Seville in October 1606. Two lines, but what a story. The story of 4 ill fated galleons. SAN ROQUE, CAPITANA SANTO DOMINGO, ALMIRANTA SAN AMBROSIO NUESTRA SENORA DE BEGONA Four...

www.treasurenet.com

Check this thread for the 1605 fleet.

 

[Mackaydon]

The wrecksites of the 1605s have yet to be found .
Don in SoCal

 

[Tanneyhill]

Top Three:
Any three lost galleons returning to Acapulco from Manila.
Top Ten:
Any ten lost galleons returning to Acapulco from Manila.
Honorable mentions:
A. Balance of 1715 fleet
B. Cordova's 1605 fleet
Don....

What was special about the Manila Galleons that everyone thinks they are the big prize of wrecks? They were larger and much more cargo aboard but wasn't most of the cargo unsalvageable merchandise from the Orient like silk, porcelain, and other commodities? Porcelain might be salvageable depending on condition.

Acapulco to Manila: loaded in silver pesos for trade with Orient
Manila to Acapulco: unsalvageable merchandise & sometimes gold

Of course I have not inspected the manifests of any Manila Galleons and am a novice in maritime treasure research. I would be grateful if some of the experts here could chime in and educate me. 😅

 

[Tanneyhill]

Undiscovered treasure galleons

Huguette and Pierre Chaunu, SEVILLE ET L’ATLANTIQUE, vol. IV, p. 200 The San Martin and the San Gregorio returned to Seville in October 1606. Two lines, but what a story. The story of 4 ill fated galleons. SAN ROQUE, CAPITANA SANTO DOMINGO, ALMIRANTA SAN AMBROSIO NUESTRA SENORA DE BEGONA Four...

www.treasurenet.com

Check this thread for the 1605 fleet.

Interesting read and we are back at square one - Serranilla, possibility of British salvaging the wrecks in 1690, Pedro Bank, Misteriosa Bank, Swan Island (Zacarias), deep water and even as far east as the west Bahamas.

Interesting discussion though, not that I had any particular interest in pursuing these wrecks but I love to research and learn and I know one thing, whatever I pursue will be something obscure and mostly unheard of. If there are pages of discussion on the internet written about a certain wreck or long threads about it its a signal to me to leave it be.

Best to stay off the radar and off the toes of others who might be in pursuit.

 

[enrada]

Manila Galleons
900 to 1000 tons prior to 1700.
E to W
Tons of P of 8 which may not be a major treasure due to the fact of number previously recovered. No Mel Fisher price enhancement.
W to E
To my knowledge all religious gold artifacts recovered in the Caribbean were made in Manila by Chinese gold smiths. However in about 1625-1630 Spanish were worried about the number in Manila so they slaughtered about 25,000 of them. Therefore I believe that MG's prior to 1630 would be worth finding.
Porcelain could be of some value however the issue is that about 200,000 pieces of Ming, Ching or similar pieces have already been found and auctioned off, thereby reducing value substantially.

I would be attracted to a W to E galleon prior to 1630.
Just my opinions after 4 years of research into MG's.

 

[Crow]

Manila Galleons
900 to 1000 tons prior to 1700.
E to W
Tons of P of 8 which may not be a major treasure due to the fact of number previously recovered. No Mel Fisher price enhancement.
W to E
To my knowledge all religious gold artifacts recovered in the Caribbean were made in Manila by Chinese gold smiths. However in about 1625-1630 Spanish were worried about the number in Manila so they slaughtered about 25,000 of them. Therefore I believe that MG's prior to 1630 would be worth finding.
Porcelain could be of some value however the issue is that about 200,000 pieces of Ming, Ching or similar pieces have already been found and auctioned off, thereby reducing value substantially.

I would be attracted to a W to E galleon prior to 1630.
Just my opinions after 4 years of research into MG's.

There is glut of porcelain. And cooling economy and real estate
collapse in China tightened the purse strings of a large customer base with disposable incomes. So value is not as high as the mid 80's. Beautifully made and I appreciate the craftsmanship but that are unpractical dust collectors in a modern world.

I would be attracted to a W to E galleon prior to 1630.
Just my opinions after 4 years of research into MG's.

If I was to guess your reasoning?

Mg brought porcelain, silk, ivory, spices, and myriad other exotic goods from China to Mexico in exchange for New World silver. (It is estimated that as much as one-third of the silver mined in New Spain and Peru went to the Far East.) But a lots of such trade items such as ivory have today trouble being sold due to restrictions exporting ivory and other items of luxury good are perishable.

Chinese manufactured jewelry prior to 1630 is much rarer than central American manufactured jewelry after 1630. Pre 1630 jewelry commands higher prices than later colonial Spanish jewelry often made in central America.

And Chinese manufactured jewelry prior to 1630 have been commanding higher prices.

And some silver shipped around might a high quality silver? 1649 The Great Potosí Mint Fraud of 1649 was a financial fraud involving the fineness of silver coinage that began in Potosí, Bolivia. The scandal had worldwide effects that lasted for decades. Most of crude coinage was worth melt value. So Manila galleons going to Philippines was not as valuable as one thinks?

Crow