lead seal

[gus]

just for the hell of it I am going to see if any of the people out there can give me some ideas on this lead seal. It was off a ship that was lost 1802 more or less. The back of the seal is blank so I have a feeling it was stuck on some container. It also had a gold leaf which is nearly all gone. Ideas. the scale is in mm.

 

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[mainer]

Cant help with an ID, but that is one of the best seals I have ever seen.

 

[Iron Patch]

Regardless of ID it's a keeper for sure!

 

[jeff of pa]

I agree Awsome looking seal !

 

[timekiller]

I agree neat looking seal. Looks to be something to do with medical and marine.With the medical symbol and anchor on it.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Beautiful seal. Can you tell us the name of the ship and approximate location? Are you in the USA?

 

[gus]

no idea of the name of the ship. Its in the collection of a museum in Mexico and I was just seeing if anyone had an idea which maybe could lead to the ships name. date came from another seal from same site.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

no idea of the name of the ship. Its in the collection of a museum in Mexico and I was just seeing if anyone had an idea which maybe could lead to the ships name. date came from another seal from same site.

Any additional information you could give us that would help narrow down the search would be helpful.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It looks like A. S. C. It also appears to be a fouled anchor. I think this means British or US. I dont know if that helps any. The rest of the seal is hard to see. Some kind of shield on the bottom.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navy/l/bluniformhist.htm

FOULED ANCHOR--The foul anchor as a naval insignia got its start as the seal of the Lord Howard of Effingham. He was the Lord Admiral of England at the time of the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588. During this period the personal seal of a great officer of state was adopted as the seal of his office. The fouled anchor still remains the official seal of the Lord High Admiral of Great Britain. When this office became part of the present Board of Admiralty, the seal was retained--on buttons, official seals, and cap badges. The US Navy's adoption of this symbol and many other customs can be directly attributed to the influence of British Naval tradition. The fouled anchor is among them

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

You mention gold leaf. Could it be a button?

 

[CRUSADER]

You mention gold leaf. Could it be a button?

button was my first thought, I'm sure it will have a missing shank.

Its not a Army Service Corp (ASC) button. I would suggest its not military at all.

 

[Bramblefind]

I just found this out by researching another item not too long ago - but the Caduceus symbol is not always medical. I don't think this one is medical.

The caduceus is sometimes used as a symbol of medicine and/or medical practice, especially in North America, due to widespread confusion with the traditional medical symbol, the rod of Asclepius, which has only a single snake and no wings. This erroneous use of the caduceus became established in the United States in the late 19th century as a result of mistakes and misunderstandings which have been well-documented.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus

The caduceus ☤ (pronounced /kəˈdjuːsiəs, -ʃəs/ kə-DEW-see-əs, from Greek kerykeion κηρύκειον) is a herald's staff, a symbolic object representing Hermes (or the Roman Mercury), and by extension trades, occupations or undertakings associated with the god. It is today typically depicted as a short staff entwined by two serpents in the form of a double helix, and is sometimes surmounted by wings. This staff was was also borne by Iris, the messenger of Hera.

In later Antiquity the caduceus provided the basis for the astrological symbol representing the planet Mercury and in Roman iconography was often depicted being carried in the left hand of Mercury, the messenger of the gods, guide of the dead and protector of merchants, shepherds, gamblers, liars and thieves.[1]

In addition to representing the planet Mercury, the caduceus is also a long-established historical symbol of commerce.[3] As one specialized study of symbolism notes, "In modern times the caduceus figures as a symbol of commerce, since Mercury is the god of commerce."[4] This association is ancient, and consistent from the Classical period to modern times.[5]

 

[Iron Patch]

You mention gold leaf. Could it be a button?

button was my first thought, I'm sure it will have a missing shank.

Its not a Army Service Corp (ASC) button. I would suggest its not military at all.

I was actually going to disagee agree with it being a button until I thought about it for a bit, and I have seen a few made that way. They weren't typical in that usually a lead button is turn of the century or earlier, but the ones I had I'm pretty sure were later. At least one was quite large, something else you don't usually see with a lead button. Once you can get past the way the one above is made (or in my case recall some I've had) the design is much more buttonish than seal like. Another thing to add is that some seals have a plain back and the remains of what looked like a shank, and I have a couple. While writing that I wondered if maybe mine are buttons but I'm pretty sure I traslated them and they were for some type of goods. So I'm not placing any big bets yet but sure wouldn't rule out a button.

 

[gus]

Too big for a button. Nearly two inches across. Ship was of unkown nationality coming from Europe with trade goods (cheap rings, medallions, uniform buttons etc.)

 

[Iron Patch]

Too big for a button. Nearly two inches across. Ship was of unkown nationality coming from Europe with trade goods (cheap rings, medallions, uniform buttons etc.)

Your first picture showing the mm didn't really make it stand out to me as being that large, and I'm guessing it's the same for most others.

Nearly 2" .... That is great! I will now agree it's a seal and a real nice one being that large.

 

[timekiller]

I'm not sure how long tin containers have been around.But this seal on this one makes me wonder.As I'm trying to figure how it would of been stuck to anything with no mounting places on it. I'm guessing glued. But this one would be close to 2" I'm thinking.
http://www.goldiproductions.com/angloboerwarmuseum/Boer70l_hero13_diffey.html#
The chocolate tin is what I'm looking at.

 

[CRUSADER]

Too big for a button. Nearly two inches across. Ship was of unkown nationality coming from Europe with trade goods (cheap rings, medallions, uniform buttons etc.)

I have found buttons at 2" & bigger, but it would be less likely in this case.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

I think its a little older than 1802----Some of the symbols go way back- Take a pick of the back for us?even though nothing on it ,it may help!

 

[Deep Seeker]

If I'm seeing this correctly, it looks like there might be a flag behind the anchor and maybe a bird at 10 o'clock. Other than that, I can't see anything else that isn't mentioned above that could help ID it.

 

[gus]

I don't have the seal. Its in storage somewhere in the local museum. Thats an old photo I had which I decided to post. I do remember seeing the reverse side and it was blank, like this was mounted on a box or something similar.