Looking for a Suspect?

bigscoop

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
13,541
Reaction score
9,086
Golden Thread
0
Location
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
A medallion, a few wine bottles, and a few other trinkets over a period of about 20 years, all dating 1765 to around 1800. All of these items came from the same small stretch of beach between Ponce Inlet and Bethune Beach. (Don't want to be too specific yet.) What I'm looking for are any known wrecks along this stretch of coast that would fall within the period relating to the mentioned items. Any references would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 

No, but man I wish I could get out that way. good luck, an you can be sure that there has been a wreck, or just a good place to sit and drink back in the day.
 

1769, shipwreck at Mt. Tucker, north of Cape Canaveral, listed on Bernard Romans chart.

Supply ship lost on the shoals north of Cape Canaveral on Dec. 11, 1786.

Several others listed.

From Singer's book Shipwrecks of Florida.
 

Thanks Mad4wrecks, I knew about the Roman's wreck, but not the 1786 wreck. Do you know of any online resources I can browse through that might offer some specific info on suspected wrecks?
 

Here is a brief example of something that MIGHT be in your "ball park"...it took me, quite literally, about 30 seconds to find:

new york gazette, jun 24th 1795.webpNew York Gazette, June 24th, 1795

This was taken from one of the many newspaper archives available online. When you type in your search terms, remember archaic spelling/ letter forms: for example, in the 18th century, "Lost" will usually be spelled "Loft". The ubiquitous "Gulf of Florida" will be spelled: "Gulph of Florida"...etc, etc...All sorts of search terms will yield surprising results. Apparently every shipwreck in antebellum times was a "melancholy" event. "bilged" will generally get lots of hits, as will "veffel", but not necessarily "vessel". There are many others.

Here is a link to the Lloyd's list catalog from 1741 to 1826: Catalog Record: Lloyd's list | Hathi Trust Digital Library

This is an incredible resource, in and of itself. Here is a fraction of a sample page:

sample Lloyd's list.webpclick to enlarge


With the rise of the internet and the digitization of so many primary resource documents, everyone on the planet has access to more information at the touch of their fingertips than the most well travelled researchers in the world had access to 10 or 15 years ago. And more documents are becoming available with every passing day. I am convinced it is only a matter of time before a shipwreck of major historical significance is found because of a digitized document or documents made available on the web. I happen to know of a primary document that was posted fairly recently on the web concerning a certain ship from a Spanish treasure fleet that no one seems to know about. It is buried in a quite obscure location. It is a stunning document. None of the shipwreck "experts" apparently, have any idea the document exists.
 

Thanks Jolly Mon! I already have several searches in mind. :icon_thumleft:
 

Thanks Jolly Mon! I already have several searches in mind. :icon_thumleft:


Excellent. I hope you find something tantalizing. In the location you are concentrating your search, I suspect you will find an embarrassment of riches. You should not find yourself "totally loft".

Incidentally, all the newspaper archives are definitely not created equal. For early wrecks, I have found the Boston Newsletter and the South Carolina Gazette to be especially fruitful. There are others.
 

Jolly Mon did you check out Harpers Weekly?
 

Jolly Mon did you check out Harpers Weekly?

I have never searched the Harper's Weekly archives directly. I never really thought about it too much in terms of shipwrecks. I have run into tons of Harper's Weekly articles over the years in reference to Civil War battles and sites. A couple of years ago, a picture I saw in one of the issues helped me nail down an old ferry site. As fanciful as some of the illustrations may seem, this one was pretty darned realistic and matched up nicely with the actual location. A bridge had long since replaced the ferry, but there was a causeway in a swamp nearby that turned out to be the old ferry location. I probably would have been able to find it without the picture, but the picture basically led me right to it. Maybe it was just luck. I was almost certainly not the first one to find it, though. I found some goodies, but nothing like you would find at a virgin or near virgin site.

Thanks for the tip about that publication, though. I will check out Harper's Weekly more thoroughly---I am sure there is some good stuff in it.
 

A medallion, a few wine bottles, and a few other trinkets over a period of about 20 years, all dating 1765 to around 1800. All of these items came from the same small stretch of beach between Ponce Inlet and Bethune Beach. (Don't want to be too specific yet.) What I'm looking for are any known wrecks along this stretch of coast that would fall within the period relating to the mentioned items. Any references would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Here is a horrible one, and a little early to relate to all of your mentioned items, perhaps, but you can't get much closer...the wreck had to be fairly near shore as well:

Smyrna wreck, Pennsylvania Journal, 2-23-1774.webpPennsylvania Journal, 2-23-1774

Some people are only interested in "treasure wrecks", of course. Personally, I love history, especially maritime history and I would love to find a wreck like this one. Not to sound morbid, but could you imagine bringing up chains and shackles from a wreck like this? So, so terrible, yet it is important not to forget things like this actually happened.

From the clipping, it would seem that someone in the crew must have at least started to release the captives. There might have been some real heroism here. Perhaps salvation as well. Amazing Grace. What a story! It wouldn't take much imagination to turn something like this into a movie.
 

Last edited:
Thanks again Jolly man. Just trying to compile some reference material on all the known wrecks on the beaches I typically hunt. Obviously I have a few pet projects but I've also found some pretty uncertain items at times that could possibly lead to something more one of these days as well. :dontknow:
 

Here is a horrible one, and a little early to relate to all of your mentioned items, perhaps, but you can't get much closer...the wreck had to be fairly near shore as well:

View attachment 766310Pennsylvania Journal, 2-23-1774

Some people are only interested in "treasure wrecks", of course. Personally, I love history, especially maritime history and I would love to find a wreck like this one. Not to sound morbid, but could you imagine bringing up chains and shackles from a wreck like this? So, so terrible, yet it is important not to forget things like this actually happened.

From the clipping, it would seem that someone in the crew must have at least started to release the captives. There might have been some real heroism here. Perhaps salvation as well. Amazing Grace. What a story! It wouldn't take much imagination to turn something like this into a movie.

Jolly Mon, the Dove was lost on the St. Augustine bar. She is located in the archeological preserve off Anastasia State Park. Some relics have indeed turned up on shore.
 

Down-Diver, you present an interesting subject/topic here. i.e., the frequent conflict between old sources and modern ones. Here we have an old article describing the wreck during the period it occurred, yet modern sources place the site of the wreck in a completely different location. So which is accurate? :dontknow:
 

Jolly Mon, the Dove was lost on the St. Augustine bar. She is located in the archeological preserve off Anastasia State Park. Some relics have indeed turned up on shore.

Very good !!! I did not know it had been positively identified. It is not a ship I have been researching, I just had the clip tagged with "Smyrna" in my files, and thought of the OP when I saw it. I guess she joins the legions of other ships lost on the St. Augustine bar.

Here is the entire clip from the Pennsylvania Journal:
dove.webp

Dove, from lost wrecks of St. Augustine.webpFrom "Lost Ships of St. Augustine"

Here is a great thread relating to a beach found relic that may/ may not be associated with the Dove.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/296742-what-these.html

Now that you mention it, I recall reading this thread and thinking to myself what a potentially cool find the charm was.

Dove, from LLoyd's 1-28-1774.webpFrom Lloyd's, 1-28-1774
 

Last edited:
Remember the Commodore was found in that area (I have the lat/lons for it at one time) there is a display at the lighthouse museum of items found. This was a steamship gun runner on its way to Cuba in which author Stephen Crane was aboard ( and wrote "The Red Badge of Courgage") when it sank in 1896 south of the inlet, there was a documentary filmed for the A&E channel about 1996 which I was an extra as well as most of the Volusia Co. Marine Research Dive Team. There were rumors that the captain had a money belt with gold in it when it went down.

http://academic.luzerne.edu/shousenick/104--STEPHENCRANE_Boat_Commodore.doc
 

I guess I got lost in all the replies. The original query was for wrecks from Ponce Inlet SOUTH to Bethune Beach. Nowhere near St. Augustine. Apologies if I am missing something.
 

The Commodor went down just off of south Daytona but the wreck was found south pf Ponce Inlet if my memory serves me right.
 

Lots of wreck reports for the Mosquito Inlet area...here are just a couple of entries from my book ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FLORIDA SHIPWRECKS, VOLUME I: ATLANTIC COAST that might be worth considering due to the location or date...


AMOS BIRDSALL
As reported in The Sailor’s Magazine and Naval Journal, Volume 19, the schooner Amos Birdsall, of New York, from Philadelphia for Brazos, Santiago, went ashore four miles south of Mosquito Inlet on January 28, 1847.

BETSEY (1787)
The sloop Betsey, Captain Grant, en route from Nassau, Bahamas to Florida, was reportedly lost on the Mosquito Bar (Ponce de Leon Inlet) on October 25, 1787; of the 16 souls onboard, only 4 escaped with their lives[1].

[1] London Chronicle, April 3, 1788.

DOVE
The November 18, 1773, loss of the slaver Dove was documented on March 10, 1774, in the Virginia Gazette, which stated, “December 28. On the 18th ultimo, in the night, the schooner Dove, from Africa for St. Augustine, was entirely lost on the coast of East Florida, about a league to the south of Smyrna. The master, two seamen, and about 80 slaves (out of 100 on board) were drowned; the rest swam ashore.” The schooner Dove immediately went to pieces.

ECHO (1844A)
As documented in The Sailor’s Magazine and Naval Journal, Volume 17 (1844), “Schooner Echo, Hastings, from Savannah, for Turks Island, in ballast, was wrecked night 17th June on Mosquito Bar, Florida. Vessel total loss.”

ECHO (1844B)
A December 21, 1844, dispatch from St. Augustine stated the schooner Echo, Captain Snow, with a cargo of live oak bound for Norfolk, was lost on the bar off New Smyrna on December 14, 1844. The schooner was departing and within 100 yards of the bar when one of the blocks on the lee fore brace parted, allowing the topsail to fly into the wind, which set her on the south breakers. While the crew was saved, the vessel and cargo were a total loss[1].

[1] Lochhead, 1954:74.



Cheers,
Mike
 

Last edited:
Jolly Mon, the Dove was lost on the St. Augustine bar. She is located in the archeological preserve off Anastasia State Park. Some relics have indeed turned up on shore.
Is there any provenance that Dove has been located conclusively? I thought she was still one of St. Augustine's lost ships----ships assumed to be in the area, but not proven to be so. Does anyone have the scoop on whether the actual wreck has been located ? Have relics been found which prove conclusively she was lost on St. Augustine bar? Or is it just assumed?
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom