M1917 helmet?

Phantom Man

Newbie
Feb 5, 2019
1
0
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
How about these numbers on what appears to be a US 1917?
I believe it starts with HC but could be UC. Thanks, Sean
Helmet 3.jpg helmet 4.JPG helmet 2.JPG
 
Last edited:

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
How about these numbers on what appears to be a US 1917?
I believe it starts with HC but could be UC. Thanks, Sean
View attachment 1677921 View attachment 1677922 View attachment 1677923

Sometimes using white chalk or white grease pencil (China marker) can bring out the details of the stampings, making them easier fo read. Rub it over the stampings filling them in, then wipe the excess off. If in fact a UC ?? marking it would make it an US made M1917 helmet.
 
Last edited:

Mattmcwatters

Newbie
Mar 24, 2019
1
0
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
My 10 year old son just found a helmet with the same markings "UC 308". Did you ever find out what company produced this model number?
 

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
My 10 year old son just found a helmet with the same markings "UC 308". Did you ever find out what company produced this model number?

Unlike foreign manufactures, the United States did not keep a list of the codes the manufacturers used. So other than knowing which companies made these helmets, we have no way of knowing which one made which helmets.

So all we really know is UC 308 is a US made 1917 helmet made during WWI. Sorry I can't tell you more.
 

jack.st

Newbie
Apr 3, 2020
1
0
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
hello i am a new colector and was hoping you culd help with theas items i have becas i am struggling with researching the items. i love finding out the histery behind all the items i colect.the helmet has r a h on the back you can only see it when its under a lite 1.jpg 3.jpg s-l1600.jpg 4.jpg 7.jpg
 

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
hello i am a new colector and was hoping you culd help with theas items i have becas i am struggling with researching the items. i love finding out the histery behind all the items i colect.the helmet has r a h on the back you can only see it when its under a lite View attachment 1818121 View attachment 1818122 View attachment 1818123 View attachment 1818124 View attachment 1818125

Without seeing all the markings on the helmet, the ABL on the liner leads me to believe it's a Belgium made copy of the British Mk.II helmet, made from 1949 - 1952. ABL is Armee Belge/Belgische Leger which would indicate an Army version.

ABL = Armee Belge/Belgische Leger (Belgium Army in French and Netherlands, the languages spoken in Belgium)

The confusing part is the flag the Belgium flag is Black Yellow and Red, based on the Red, White and Blue it would be either Luxembourg or the Netherlands. I'm not 100% positive if they used the Brodie Helmet.

British Pattern 1940 Greatcoat Dismounted, the information on the tag will tell you if it's war time made or post WWII made.

Can't read the tag enough to tell you more about it. Looks like it says A & J Mande? 194? Glasgow.
 
Last edited:

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
Finally figured out the Manufacturer it's A & J MANDEL LTD out of GLASGOW. It's a Pattern 1940 Dismounted Greatcoat. The numbers before the word GLASGOW 19?? would be the date the coat was manufactured.

So a British made military greatcoat aka the all weather coat of the time, made from wool.
 

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
As for the helmet.

ABL = Armee Belge/Belgische Leger (Belgium Army in French and Netherlands, the languages spoken in Belgium)
1949 = The model (First made in 1949 hence the model number)
X.B. = Xavier Buisset, Vilvoorde, the manufacturer
XXXX = Under the X.B. should be another date, that is the date the helmet was made.

Still not understanding the flag, I've done a quick search with no luck on why it would have a non Belgium flag on it.

I'm leaning towards it being a Dutch Civil Defense used helmet.
 
Last edited:

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
Updated list, added a confirmed new one and 3 probable ones. The probable are in red and I will continue to research and update as new information is found.

Known Heat-Stamp Markings of WWI American M1917 Helmets:
(This list is based on what I have actually seen, more heat stamps might be out there)

UC
W? ?
XH
YJ
ZA
ZB
ZC
ZD
ZE
ZF
ZG
ZH
ZJ
ZL ?
ZM ?
ZN
 
Last edited:

Patrickflan

Tenderfoot
Jun 19, 2021
6
3
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
1917a1 heat stamp

Updated list, added a confirmed new one and 3 probable ones. The probable are in red and I will continue to research and update as new information is found.

Known Heat-Stamp Markings of WWI American M1917 Helmets:
(This list is based on what I have actually seen, more heat stamps might be out there)

UC
W? ?
XH
YJ
ZA
ZB
ZC
ZD
ZE
ZF
ZG
ZH
ZJ
ZL ?
ZM ?
ZN

i have a 1917a1 with the heat stamp Hv i believe and under it says 66 do you know if it?s ww1 or ww2 made
 

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
i have a 1917a1 with the heat stamp Hv i believe and under it says 66 do you know if it?s ww1 or ww2 made

First off welcome to TNet, from Florida, and second sorry for the delay in answering your question.

I'll give you some basic history and some information, but pictures will be needed to fill in the gaps.

For starters the M1917 was a US made copy of the British made helmet. The British made the Mk1, the US used British made Mk1s, before getting everything together to make their own copy called the M1917. Between 1932 and 1936 the US modified some British made Mk1s and US made M1917s with a new liner and chin strap, some sources refer to these as M1917As. Then the US made new shells with the new liner and chin strap and these helmets were referred to as the M1917A1.

Now as to your helmet, the HV 66 marking is broken down as follows.

The "H" indicates that the helmet was made by Hutton and Sons Ltd they produced helmets starting in 1915.

The "V" is for the steel supplier, Vickers Ltd they began supplying steel in 1916.

The "66" is the heat treating lot number of the steel used to make the helmet.

So a Hutton and Sons made helmet, made with steel supplied by Vickers Ltd. Your helmet is a WWI era British made helmet.

Beyond that without seeing pictures of it, that is as far as I can go with my information and identification. Post some pictures of the helmet, the liner, the chin strap, chin strap bale rivets, and I can tell you more. At the least you have a WWI made Mk1, that could have been used by the British or Americans. It's possible that it was modified by the US before making the M1971A1 helmet, or not and could just be a British helmet. This is why pictures are needed.
 
Last edited:

Patrickflan

Tenderfoot
Jun 19, 2021
6
3
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
1917a1

60BCFE35-A890-49F2-B515-29B907D3D06D.jpg 81198469-926E-494F-B2CC-15A59D252F78.jpeg 01555EE8-CF94-4BAA-9AC3-64CADAC0E2E5.jpg
First off welcome to TNet, from Florida, and second sorry for the delay in answering your question.

I'll give you some basic history and some information, but pictures will be needed to fill in the gaps.

For starters the M1917 was a US made copy of the British made helmet. The British made the Mk1, the US used British made Mk1s, before getting everything together to make their own copy called the M1917. Between 1932 and 1936 the US modified some British made Mk1s and US made M1917s with a new liner and chin strap, some sources refer to these as M1917As. Then the US made new shells with the new liner and chin strap and these helmets were referred to as the M1917A1.

Now as to your helmet, the HV 66 marking is broken down as follows.

The "H" indicates that the helmet was made by Hutton and Sons Ltd they produced helmets starting in 1915.

The "V" is for the steel supplier, Vickers Ltd they began supplying steel in 1916.

The "66" is the heat treating lot number of the steel used to make the helmet.

So a Hutton and Sons made helmet, made with steel supplied by Vickers Ltd. Your helmet is a WWI era British made helmet.

Beyond that without seeing pictures of it, that is as far as I can go with my information and identification. Post some pictures of the helmet, the liner, the chin strap, chin strap bale rivets, and I can tell you more. At the least you have a WWI made Mk1, that could have been used by the British or Americans. It's possible that it was modified by the US before making the M1971A1 helmet, or not and could just be a British helmet. This is why pictures are needed.
 

Attachments

  • AEDBC7E3-C7A7-4FA8-A0CB-E31669331383.jpeg
    AEDBC7E3-C7A7-4FA8-A0CB-E31669331383.jpeg
    151.5 KB · Views: 46

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
sorry if the pictures are weird or if i did anything g wrong i?m getting new to this platform.

Pictures uploaded just fine, no problems there.

So to make it simple you have a British made Mk1 "Brodie" helmet, used by the United States during WWI and called the M1917 by the US. Prior to WWII (1932-1936) the US upgraded these helmets with a new liner and chin strap assembly and re-designated it the M1917A1 "Kelly" helmet.

As stated prior your helmet was made Hutton and Sons with steel supplied by Vickers Ltd.
 
Last edited:

Patrickflan

Tenderfoot
Jun 19, 2021
6
3
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Pictures uploaded just fine, no problems there.

So to make it simple you have a British made Mk1 "Brodie" helmet, used by the United States during WWI and called the M1917 by the US. Prior to WWII (1932-1936) the US upgraded these helmets with a new liner and chin strap assembly and re-designated it the M1917A1 "Kelly" helmet.

As stated prior you helmet was made Hutton and Sons with steel supplied by Vickers Ltd.

oh wow thank you so much for all the information it?s even cooler than i thought!!!!!
 

Patrickflan

Tenderfoot
Jun 19, 2021
6
3
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
also quick question is the 14 on the brim of the helmet just a lot number?
 

Patrickflan

Tenderfoot
Jun 19, 2021
6
3
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
That would most likely be a rack number, local control number, etc for the helmet and just used for tracking purposes. Like a unit assigned SN for the helmet.



oh ok well thank you for all the help good to get all this information!!!!
 

Retired Sarge

Bronze Member
Feb 22, 2009
2,239
4,185
Panama City Florida
Primary Interest:
Other
Updated list, added a confirmed new one and 3 probable ones. The probable are in red and I will continue to research and update as new information is found.

Added three lot codes to the XH code, don't know if the 3rd place letter was used instead of a number like other lots had or what. I've only seen one of each marked helmets thus far.

Known Heat-Stamp Markings of WWI American M1917 Helmets:
(This list is based on what I have actually seen, more heat stamps might be out there)

UC
WA confirmed this one.
XH (XHE, XHM, XHQ)
YJ
ZA
ZB
ZC
ZD
ZE
ZF
ZG
ZH
ZJ
ZL ?
ZM ?

ZN

Still researching the following lot codes, they are supposedly markings for early experimental/tests helmets by the Crosby Company.

KCco
NCco

OCco
 
Last edited:

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top