Manticore Problem in Salt Water

[LawrencetheMDer]

There have been reports that the Manticore has a problem with salt water making contact with the coil connector on back of the control box. If the connector receives intermittent contact with salt water the Manticore with become unstable regardless of settings. When the coil is above or constantly below water the issue is not present. Presumably, the problem may be related to a “floating ground” utilized on the Manticore.

Yesterday, for the first time, I took my Manticore and new 15” coil to the beach for a water hunt (Beach low conductors with Underwater Boost). It worked fine on the dry sand but as soon as I was waist deep the detector became unstable, whining with a large black dot (signal) appearing centered roughly from VDI 0 to 10-15 on the 2-D display. I am not sure if this is the same issue as reported above.

At the time, I wasn’t aware of the salt water issue with the coil connector. When working on the problem while in the water I turned off Underwater boost, and it seemed to help, somewhat. But it was impossible to hunt in the water with the Manticore. I returned to my truck and got my back-up Equinox 800 with 15” coil in order to hunt.

Now I am wondering if the Manticore is only good for dry sand Was it the 15" coil?

 

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[WaterWalker]

My new M15 has only been on one saltwater outing spending about 2 hours under water with no problems. I just disconnected the coil and the only thing I would suggest is that you inspect the cable connector and verify that the red O-Ring in intact and clean (no sand). The connector needs to be screwed down snugly as the red O-Ring is the only protection from water entering between the cable and control unit's connectors pt prevent any water egress. I have over 500 hours with the Manticore submerged with no ill effects.

 

[LawrencetheMDer]

Apparently, issue only happens in surf with intermittent contact between salt water and coil connector, as reported by others. When in air only or in total water submersion problem doesn't occur. But I'm not convinced that is my problem, per se. Going back in Gulf tomorrow and trouble shoot more and see if problem is as reported. Also have to see if problem occurs with standard 11" coil. Others have also reported failed coils.
I do a lot of water hunting and even use silicon to secure a water tight seal with all connectors. Gone through 4 Equinox 800s, 3 CTX 3030s and Excal II is older backup. But never any problems like this before. Just got Manticore about month ago but usually only hunt with larger coils in Gulf.

 

[niffler]

I hope you're able to figure out the problem and get everything working

 

[OBN]

First thing to consider is the salinity of the water where you hunt. Also, this is a common problem with some metal detectors, some are worse than others, ....right in that area of the coil connector. Saltwater hitting or,... in that area, causes the detector to act stupid.... a player in this is how salty your water is.. fresh water does not affect this area as far as I know. Eric Foster had a name for this, I can't remember what he called it but it's like the connector has a small field that is created at this point. Saltwater affects this field.......... My Excalibur's have it when my waters are ruff, and my AQ PI has it so bad I had to put a "Audio on/off toggle" to save my ears. And I hunt brackish waters so it is not as bad here, in Florida your up against higher salinity waters. When hunting a area of the shallow water.... where the water level hits this area, it makes it impossible to hunt ..so you either hove to go deeper into, or shallow where the water is not hitting this area. I don't think some experience this for they never hunt these areas, I know I would not have the problem with the AQ if did not use a sifter. I dig a target and than I have to lift the coil out of the water to check the sifter if the target is in it (Or Pinpoint it) , as soon as this area comes out of the water the machine give off a falsing signal, than going under the same issue.. so I fixed that..

I have another friend that found a solution for his AQ.., Much like a Faraday cage? ...he has covered this entire area with aluminum foil.. which blocks of this field from being affect by surroundings and now he can hunt that area in the water where some people weigh into.. I do have a picture but do not have his permission to share.. yet.. Thanks Jim..

Notice in video as soon as it comes out of the water and as soon as that area hits the water going back in it falses.. and this is before I put the toggle on it.

 

[LawrencetheMDer]

First thing to consider is the salinity of the water where you hunt. Also, this is a common problem with some metal detectors, some are worse than others, ....right in that area of the coil connector. Saltwater hitting or,... in that area, causes the detector to act stupid.... a player in this is how salty your water is.. fresh water does not affect this area as far as I know. Eric Foster had a name for this, I can't remember what he called it but it's like the connector has a small field that is created at this point. Saltwater affects this field.......... My Excalibur's have it when my waters are ruff, and my AQ PI has it so bad I had to put a "Audio on/off toggle" to save my ears. And I hunt brackish waters so it is not as bad here, in Florida your up against higher salinity waters. When hunting a area of the shallow water.... where the water level hits this area, it makes it impossible to hunt ..so you either hove to go deeper into, or shallow where the water is not hitting this area. I don't think some experience this for they never hunt these areas, I know I would not have the problem with the AQ if did not use a sifter. I dig a target and than I have to lift the coil out of the water to check the sifter if the target is in it (Or Pinpoint it) , as soon as this area comes out of the water the machine give off a falsing signal, than going under the same issue.. so I fixed that..
View attachment 2134355

I have another friend that found a solution for his AQ.., Much like a Faraday cage? ...he has covered this entire area with aluminum foil.. which blocks of this field from being affect by surroundings and now he can hunt that area in the water where some people weigh into.. I do have a picture but do not have his permission to share.. yet.. Thanks Jim..
View attachment 2134483


Notice in video as soon as it comes out of the water and as soon as that area hits the water going back in it falses.. and this is before I put the toggle on it.

Very Interesting. Didn't have problem with Excal II, CTX3030 or Equinox 800. Next time in Gulf with Manticore I'll trouble shoot more and get back to ya'll.

 

[LawrencetheMDer]

Found out the problem with the 15" coil on the Manticore when in salt water - It is easy to overdrive Sensitivity; I had it on 20 or so at the time of the problem. Because the 15" coil AND Manticore are supersensitive, you have to keep Sensitivity around 15-16 when in salt water. I always ran Sensitivity on my Equinox 800s with 15" coils around 20-21 (on 25 Max scale) in the same environment. With the Manticore and 15" coil, keep the Sensitivity around 15-16 (out of 35 Max) to avoid the issue. Seems to work, today I snagged a small gold bracelet and King Will spinner ring. Have to publish with protos. Thanks goes to "Tom" for helping solve the problem.
Btw, drowned my 3rd Equinox 800 today. Luckily, still under 3 yr warranty so have to send in for replacement, again. A BIG reason to upgrade to 900 or Manticore, I guess, although I HATE Manticore sounds; can only hear and use when on underwater Boost!

 

[SPIN1963]

New to the board! Hello to all! Start out with a "Question" to all who have used the Manticore over the past year. Q: Anyone still having issue(s) with the Manticore in the saltwater? Just had mine out today in the greater Miami beach area for a water hunt and had several curious things I noticed (one may be my ignorance): Seems like the 11" coil would just stop reporting and I would get a double zero on the display with waves icon under it. Also it seems the WM09 would just drop after about 2 - 4 inches of the handle unit submerging into the salt water (would pair back up upon surfacing). Thanks in advance!

Added: Thanks! Yes, the drop out of the WM09 was just wave break action ... I guess I would have thought it would hold. But there you go. I will try switching over to my 8" coil and see if it improves. The oddity that got me curious was the 11" then worked great on the way back to the car on semi dry.

 

[bigscoop]

First and foremost, "Larger coils are always far more unstable in saltwater environments." This instability is only magnified when there is also current and wave action. "Smaller coils will always produce a more stable search field than larger ones in these environments."

Another part of the problem with these larger coils in these environments is coil stability itself, the currents and wave action actually causing the coil control to become more unstable even though you may not be able recognize it with the naked eye.

The larger the coil the larger the search field and thus the greater amount of contaminants in that search field which effects everything from ground balance to sensitivity, thus this sensitivity quite often having to be reduced so much that the potential advantages of that larger coil become null and void, and quite often resulting in less depth and sensitivity than a smaller coil.

I've even encountered this same problem in some freshwater environments. Larger coils are only most effective when conditions allow for them.

 

[bigscoop]

I'm also reminded of a similar issue I had with a new 12x15 SEF coil that I had purchased for the Excal, no matter what I did I couldn't produce stability. So, I sent that coil back only to learn that, yes, it was a bad coil. They sent me a new one and the problem was solved. As I recall, it was Dave at KellyCo who figured out the issue with the bad coil and upon further inspection he did find others that were bad before finding a good one to replace mine. I believe TH suggested to me that I let Dave inspect that bad coil and that ended up being a good call.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Keep in mind Bluetooth does not work when detector bluetooth transmitter is under water, use waterproof headphones if detector will be underwater...

 

[bigscoop]

I'm also reminded of a similar issue I had with a new 12x15 SEF coil that I had purchased for the Excal, no matter what I did I couldn't produce stability. So, I sent that coil back only to learn that, yes, it was a bad coil. They sent me a new one and the problem was solved. As I recall, it was Dave at KellyCo who figured out the issue with the bad coil and upon further inspection he did find others that were bad before finding a good one to replace mine. I believe TH suggested to me that I let Dave inspect that bad coil and that ended up being a good call.

And to add to this story, even after getting the new coil I later discovered that I could still hunt deeper and with greater sensitivity with the stock 8" & 10" when I was in the saltwater or hunting along the wet sand area and waterlines. This all having to do with the greater amount of contaminants in that larger search field that the larger coils create. There comes a point when the other sacrifices required aren't worth that larger coverage area.

 

[TXXpress]

Great information here. Thanks everyone!

 

[bountyfisher]

Hi everyone, first time posting, long-time lurker. These forums have always helped in discovering things that I'm finding, need ID help, or are happening to me. This time I've decided to join because this issue has been happening to me. But I don't detect in saltwater, just freshwater, so I felt it important to those trying to figure out if this is a grounding issue specific to salt water. It isn't.

It is particularly frustrating because I've had a number of issues with this Manticore since buying it last year in April. I've had to have the head replaced, and my wireless headphones replaced four times (last time they admitted it's a faulty internal battery). But as I live in Canada, I've racked up considerable shipping charges to have stuff shipped to Pennsylvania, because our exclusive dealer here decided to wash their hands of service/repair matters.

Below is a visual reference to what's occurring. I particularly find it frustrating because I grid, and sometimes I decide to work in a lateral direction to the shoreline. Well, if you are in a spot where the water level just hits that spot where the coil connects (esp if it's wavvy) the machine will false like crazy and behave erratically.

The only thing you are left to do is hunch down to drop your head below water level and submerge it. This is a major issue as far as I'm concerned, and I posted about it in one of the Facebook Beach Detecting groups, and discovered it's happened to quite a few people, and not just with the Manticore, but also the Nox (700, 800 and 900).

I don't believe this is coil specific, but because I immediately jumped to the M15 coil when I got the new head, I haven't tried running it with the factory (smaller) coil to see if it replicates this issue.

I'll try to check back and see if anyone has figured out a fix that doesn't require the unit to be replaced under warranty. I spent so much time programming this new head, I'm just at a loss with this machine right now.