Masonic - Knights Templar Medal - UPDATE - Pro Deo Et Jure

[bradsguns]

Found this at the CTH Hunt. Looks to be solid copper, possibly enameled at one time. Appx. 1" x 2" in size, about 1/16" thick. Some sort of Masonic medal or the like ? I have found some similiar, but not quite right. Writing on banner is something like "RO*LOPI SUVE(A)..very hard to read, so use your imagination there. If you have any ideas, let me know.
Thanks,
Brad

 

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[sniffer]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

with the helmet at the top, it looks more english/church than masonic. JMO

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

Is it possible to rephoto with more light and focus on the words? Thanks.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

try thinking -- knights of columbus --a sort of catholic version of the masons

wording is most likely latin *

what if anything is on the rear?

 

[sniffer]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

could be, Ivan

 

[Tuberale]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

Not Masonic or Knights Templar IMO. But that was a good guess.

I don't see any of the emblems typical for Mason on this piece: compass, all-seeing eye, pyramid, etc.

Don't think that's enamel on the front either. May be cloisonne, but only a portion remaining. If cloisonne should have many more colors in it that may have been lost. Cloisonne would typically have some gold in it as well. Cloisonne is taken from the Egyptian "lost wax" method of metallurgy, and typically has thin, highly polished pieces of smaller stones/gems set in a frame that looks similar to a stained glass picture (at least in my opinion).

RO* could be ROI, or French for "king". Might try using a toothbrush to clean the frame a little more: don't think it's going to harm the "enamel" at all at this stage.

 

[bradsguns]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

Pictures are at the best I can get at this point...Wording is VERY difficult to read....in good lighting with a magnifier I have figured out that the beginning is "pro deo et" and then something that looks like SUP?? or 3UP(R). Appreciate all the assistance...I am still looking. Im not guessing really old, as now I can make out what appears to be a stamping that ends in what I believe is "chicago".
Brad

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

Possibly Pro Deo et Patria (for God and Country)?

 

[Dano Sverige]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

Hate when i go searching and someone's beaten me to it when i get back Mackaydon!!!

"Patria" seems to be the main last word of that in the things i've seen. Seems to be on a lot of US high school and college badges/patches/pins. Can't find a match though.
Was also thinking maybe German. The single spear being the spear that pierced christs side, and which the Nazis supposedly had possesion of.
If it's stamped "Chicago" though this'll be unlikely.

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

Anything on the reverse? Words, images, clasps, hooks, etc.?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

maybe army mans or army chaplin's * medal ? -- for god and country in latin "pro (for) deo (god) et (and) patria (country) * pro deo et patria -- a single spear ( a symbol standing for the the one thrust into the side of christ to "speed up" his death and the cross seem to mean the item is somewhat religious in nature )--the crossed swords and knights helmet seem to learn towards the military or maybe "in service to god" --ie a "soldier of christ" like a priest or chaplin might be.

the "chicago" marking was most likely it's place of manufacture.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

PRO DEO ET REGE? For God and King.

The heraldic design makes me think it's British, but I haven't found a match yet. The word Chicago is confusing though, can you try to make out the rest of the stamp? I'll keep looking.

 

[Bramblefind]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

The knight's head on the top of the fob/charm seems to be a common design element in fraternal pieces circa late 19th C. Here is part of a page from the Montgomery Ward catalog of 1895 -

Listed under "Solid Gold and Roll Plate Emblem Charms"

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

look ----crossed swords with knights helmet --knights of pythias *

from left ---fourth item top row and on second row third item from left are both knoghts of pythias items --see the F B C thats their "motto" -freindship , charity, benevolence

 

[bradsguns]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

Again, thank you all so much for your interest & assistance. A little olive oil has shown some verification of part of what we have found.... I am certainly confident we have "Pro Deo Et" as the first part of the banner. Following though is deifinitely NOT any of the "standards"..ie: Patria, Regge, etc. I am still going with something like SUP(3)(D)(R)....again, there is much corrosion, so I am lightly oilying and subjecting to different light sources.

As for the back, I have seemed to clear up enough that it looks like Roundy - chicago. I do know that there was a Medinah Temple in Chicago with Frank Roundy as Imperial Potentate in the early 1900s Though a message from a freemason historian says he doesnt recognize the symbol.

Thanks again......appreciate the help and will advise if I find any info.

Brad

 

[Bramblefind]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

Maybe "Pro Deo Et Schola"? - that's a school award. Haven't been able to find much history on them but the lettering might fit...

 

[bradsguns]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

UPDATE !!! - "Pro Deo Et Jure" - For God & Law. Found a page with good description of the logo as a sword sheild. Said to be 1891-1925 York Rite of the Masons...Still need to verify the medal/badge useage, but finally a good start !!
Brad

http://arms2armor.com/Swords/yorkswd1.htm

 

[Bramblefind]

Re: Masonic - Knights Templar Medal

UPDATE !!! - "Pro Deo Et Jure" - For God & Law. Found a page with good description of the logo as a sword sheild. Said to be 1891-1925 York Rite of the Masons...Still need to verify the medal/badge useage, but finally a good start !!
Brad

http://arms2armor.com/Swords/yorkswd1.htm

Fantastic!!

Here - this came up in google images:

 

[Mackaydon]

Here's another:
http://www.spainswords.com/templarias_y_ord.15.html
(Probably the same as above entry.)

 

[Bramblefind]

Ooh a ribbon!

http://www.victoriansilk.com/stevens/bookmarks/sb01-583/sb520.html

CHICAGO

1880

ST BERNARD
COMMANDERY





image of Coat of Arms
below which is words:
PRO DEO ET JURE


No. 35
KNIGHTS TEMPLAR.


CHICAGO