Michigan laws?

[Peyton Manning]

Going to be in Alanson for about a week, anyone know the laws?
I plant to hit shores of Lake Michigan and any public parks

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Going to be in Alanson for about a week, anyone know the laws?
I plant to hit shores of Lake Michigan and any public parks

I've seen people posting finds that they made from the beaches along Lake Michigan. So it apparently must not be an issue.

 

[Peyton Manning]

Thanks Tom

 

[A#1]

I don't know the laws in the Alanson area, I'm south of Charlevoix, but I generally know whats goin on up here.

I'll warn you with generality, and say that in some form, metal detecting is most likely a violation of a law somehow. Be site specific, and inquire or read what you can at the time.

Keep in mind that you will be in an area of State land, county/township property, nature preserves, and land conservencies. An area swarming with self-important yuppies, righteous tree hugging do-gooders, and generally ignorant city chimps.

On the other hand, it's also an area of Barney Fife law enforcement, so you'll probably only be shooed away by the local cop that's just doing his job with a "no harm-no foul" type attitude.

All of these places usually have rules that COULD make detecting unlawful if you aren't aware of how it applies, and what feathers get ruffled to draw attention to you.

The township and county land is usually mainyained by the local park systems. Diffing on a beach will most likely go unoticed, but cut a plug in the grass and it's "destruction of park property"

State owned land is somewhat different. It's also not LAW that sets the rules, it's "policy by order of the director of the MiDNR" Individual state parks can carry their own rules and may designate specific places where detecting is allowed, and in some cases isn't allowed at all. This policy also calls out a maximum probe size you're allowed to recover a target with, a Leche or a beach scoop would actually be unlawful.

Also consider that most bodies of water up here can have some protection over them. Designated trout streams, natural rivers, tributary considerations, and DEQ water watchdogs.......and plenty of ignorant people to report you. In fact I was reported a few years back because some fool thought i was digging too close to the lake.....in MY front yard.

So generally you would probably get away with it..... but generally it's probably against a rule somehow. Do your best to know the rules under your feet, be kind to the land, and polite to an officer.

None of this stops me from detecting most places, but I stay educated, and pick my spots defensively. I don't do anything morally despicable, though i know at times i'm in violation.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...I'll warn you with generality, and say that in some form, metal detecting is most likely a violation of a law somehow....

There is no doubt that if a barney-fife authority-type wanted to apply "alter" and "deface" to our actions, he probably could. You and I could try to point out that we're leaving no trace, and therefore haven't alterED or defacED anything. But you're right : We'd be on the loosing end of that debate of semantics.

And, heck, why stop there ? They could also say you're falling afoul of verbiage about "harvest" and "remove". And "lost & found" laws, etc.... It's never ending.

However, I do not believe that a typical park is "swarming" with people who will gripe along those lines. Instead, I find it to be exactly the opposite : Most people are intrigued. Asking "What's the best thing you've ever found?", and "How deep does it go?" and "where can I buy one of those?", etc...

Therefore, when I'm traveling around, I do not hesitate to detect at any park (or forest, or beach, or desert, etc...) that I come to. If someone doesn't like it, they're welcome to come alert me. Unless I knew that a specific "no md'ing" rule or law existed, I will simply pull out my detector and detect. Obviously use common sense and go at low traffic times (since md'ing has ... uh .... connotations). And of course avoid obvious historic sensitive monuments and archie conventions. But beyond that, I never fret myself for laws, nor swat hornet's nests asking permissions. I just go.

 

[A#1]

i conpletely agree with you, and I act pretty muh the same way.

The only thing I can counterpoint is on his location. It may be 50 miles down the road, but it's where I live, and I know this to be true.

These won't be typical parks or beaches. They are tourist, and outdoor oriented places in small towns that tend to pride themselves on perfection. And the people that frequent them are often quite overzealous in their attempt to save the planet.

The area itself is overrun with the type of people who WILL report you to someone if they dont like something, based solely on what they want to THINK should be the rules.

The rules sometimes are a lot more restrictive than can be assumed, and the punishments greater than you'd think. Like I would NOT mess around with most bodies of water in northern Michigan. They are protected in ways that just aren't worth it........Like skipping a beach rock into Lake Michigan is a heavily fineable offense.



All I'm advocating is being aware of the rules, and how you could be breaking them.

 

[A#1]

It took me a few to realize this, but you're in California. That state is a perfect example of what I'm getting at.....

I'm sure you're aware of how there are certain areas of that state that are populated by a "different" sort of people.

These people tend to force their views on others regardless of reality.

For example, a fart in San Francisco will probably be reported by someone as air pollution.....regardless of reality.

This is similar to the northwest portion of Michigan. The people here are generally just perfectly reasonable farm folk. But the governments and many outsiders (money) tend to overpower reality.


Happened to think of another example....a year or so ago a friend of mine had a knock on his door. A big city idiot stopped to tell him his cows were laying down, and she'd seen on TV that they never did that. That same person reported him to local law enforcement as being abusive to animals, and because a report was made they were required to respond. The cops came out, but knew better and laughed it off, but still had to do the paperwork......all because of that "different" sort of people around here.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

It took me a few to realize this, but you're in California. That state is a perfect example of what I'm getting at.....

I'm sure you're aware of how there are certain areas of that state that are populated by a "different" sort of people.

These people tend to force their views on others regardless of reality.

For example, a fart in San Francisco will probably be reported by someone as air pollution.....regardless of reality.

This is similar to the northwest portion of Michigan. The people here are generally just perfectly reasonable farm folk. But the governments and many outsiders (money) tend to overpower reality.

We can fret ourselves about laws about spitting on sidewalks, skipping stones on Lake Michigan, etc... And we can tell ourselves that "everyone around me is waiting to take offense and gripe". If you start with that mindset (that you're doing something illegal, & hated, and that everyone's watching you waiting to gripe), then it just becomes a self-fulfilling loop. People will pick up on those vibes.

So as ironic as it sounds, you kind of have to "act like you own the place". Because the moment you have the persona, where you are looking around with the "oh no, does he see me" look on your face, is the moment people WILL IN FACT look at you and wonder "Gee, what's he doing ?".

Therefore I distance myself from any fretting about laws. And any notions that people "might dislike this". Because if I have things like that on my mind, they only become self-fulfilling. And .... in well over 40 yrs. of detecting, I have never faced any legal consequence. Oh sure, plenty of "scrams" and stink-eyes. You have to develop callouses to those occasional encounters. Because if you're waiting for everyone to roll out red carpets for you, this is not the right hobby for you.

In fact, for nice-manicured turfed parks, it's gotten to where I do most of those @ night-hunting these days. So peaceful. So serene. And no ... I don't fret myself about "park closed at sunset" verbiage. Those are merely there so that no one thinks he's going to camp out there, or have late night keg parties. If someone wants to come out and tell me the "park is closed", they're welcome to.

 

[A#1]

We can fret about many things. The OP came here and asked about the LAW. I've tried to convey what I can to him, I've attempted to add an overall interpretation of the area he asked about, that I live and play in every day of my life.

If spitting on the sidewalk can be cited as unlawful......there just aint no other way to see it. If you spit, you could be fined, simple as that.

If you want to loosely interpret and blatantly violate regulations, under the eye of the self inportant people who WILL report you, that's fine too.

The choice is yours

I'm not saying not to detect, I'm not saying you'll get harassed or fined......or even noticed. I'm saying be clear on where you are here, what you're doing, and what consequences you might end up paying.

 

[releventchair]

Never hunted there...
Lake Mi. shoreline can be a source of contention if near public areas ,and more so on private.
I've lost track of the argument of high watermark vs being in the water to go through.
Some inland lakes land ownership extends to mid lake. (Figure that out...)

Park rules vary. Check for a sign prohibiting detecting at a /the popular entrance , rules are usually posted well enough.
If detecting is not banned ,have at it.

Know though that busy bodies exist. I've encountered some bizarre attitudes , but I keep detecting.
Off hours helps. As does common sense of not swinging over sunbathers or kicking kids.

Lake Mi. state parks rules for detecting vary. (As with most parks) and some have what is basically an area of sandbox to detect in with any finds of value or age (study the antiquities act) need to be shown /surrendered to park official(s).

Being not familiar with the area I would research at least a few sites.
One thing you might consider are G.A.R. reunion sites at varied parks and areas. Not only for related relics potential ,but also for knowing the age of era's events there.

Depending on terrain , informal sledding hills on back side of the lakes dunes may exist. Folks still tromp about in summer , but less traffic and potential drops can be worth it. Wind and storms can change dunes but there are historic (far as tradition) sweet spots with nick names.

Hob knobbing with elder long time residents during ice cream weather might provide a forgotten (almost) swimming hole or sledding hill ,or picnic place ,or lovers lane ,or kid hang out away from the/a village.

Don't overlook old newspapers from areas you plan to visit...Events where crowds gathered can be researched for location and what exists there today.
Heck , a map of payphone locations alone could keep someone busy.
Or even outdoor pop machines.

Farther South and probably all along the coast there used to be snack bars and restrooms on the beaches. Silver was still in use...
Between the no longer service window ,and the beach "towel line " where nothing of structure is seen today where I was a kid , would be worth revisiting.

If people object who are not authority figures ,to bad/hard cheese ,leave me alone. You're impact on this developed place is not exactly a return to "natural" conditions either.

I don't act nervous or uncomfortable when police are watching.
I wave once to acknowledge , and go back to detecting.

Take all trash out with me. Fill holes firm enough to avoid air gaps (fold plug flaps back when there is sod) and blend my recovery site so you really have to try to notice. IF you can find it.
Due to using a chair my "stomping" loose material firm/level before blending looks rougher than it is.
One thing of concern in public areas is the type equipment used to mow.
Small plugs can get vacuumed up and chopped by mowing equipment in certain conditions.
I have cut mule foot sized flaps and plugs in those areas. When treated as transplanted plugs to secure them and keep air out from around them ,and blending any remaing sign after replacing them...Good results have followed.

Don't get too ambitious if facing a period of dry weather predicted though if you are in sod.
Treat beach growth as precious. Regardless of natures treatment of it.


Folks seem less enthused to be out in winter but in the 60's and 70's they sure participated.

 

[Peyton Manning]

I appreciate all the comments, thanks
I plan to assume that the shore of Lake Michigan is like the Atlantic in that it is public.
I don’t do state parks, just city

 

[A#1]

I appreciate all the comments, thanks
I plan to assume that the shore of Lake Michigan is like the Atlantic in that it is public.
I don’t do state parks, just city

That would be an incorrect assumption. Property lines extend to the waters edge. You would be tresspassing.

It looks as if about the only access to detecting a Lake Michigan beach will be through Petoskey state park. There are a few other township parks that will be a 20+ mile drive from Alanson that I can't study further right now. I'll study that a bit more when I get home.

 

[Peyton Manning]

Dagnabit I hate to be wrong!

 

[A#1]

Dagnabit I hate to be wrong!

Lol, sorry

I'll look around and see if i can find some stuff

 

[Tom_in_CA]

That would be an incorrect assumption. Property lines extend to the waters edge. You would be tresspassing....

Really ? That's odd. Because I've distinctly seen show & tell posts , from guys who were hunting the beaches of Lake Michigan.

And can't/don't people walk along the shore-line beach , as just general pedestrians ? If so, then I don't consider md'ing to be any more harmful than being a passer-by walking person. Unless, of course..... someone is really out there splitting hairs about where you're standing at the toe-of-the-water. And shooing away any & all would-be pedestrians ?

 

[A#1]

Well, those show & tell posts mislead you.

People do walk along the beach, right up to the fence with the private property sign, and if provoked I'm sure the people owning the multi million dollar homes there WILL split every hair they can.

 

[releventchair]

I don't follow it , but yes there have been recent battles over if and where pedestrians can travel on/in waters edge of private Lake Michigan beach..
Last one that comes to mind was they has to be in the water.
And that water tends to be cold from my experience...

Seeking a given parcels owners permission could be done but I've never considered it.
Beach weather is a thin slice of the climate.
Yes over time there may be accumulations of drops/lost items.
But public (numbers of people over time) appeal to my feeble opinion more.
Wind direction during ice out factors in what gets scoured. May/does plow debris up on shore on lee side of lake during break up..

Access to bigger beaches as I recall have conspicuous posting where boundaries end. Sadly it's been to long to note if signage is formal today with where travel distance from dry sand needs to be.

 

[releventchair]

I'll look around.
Here is 2005. Probably the stuff jogging my cloudy memory.
https://michiganlcv.org/cases/beach-walking-great-lakes-shoreline/

Looks like the Supreme Court is on deck for 2019. (Note Indiana Jeff!)
https://www.theindianalawyer.com/ar...t-pushes-deadline-on-lake-michigan-beach-case

Walking in water looks defend-able for now. Detecting is another thing.
You know I'd get a beep on dry sand somehow....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Well then if it's an all-fired crime to walk along the shore, then: Certainly there are public beaches @ lake-Michigan (like where you can launch boats, where there is adjacent parks, etc....), right ? That aren't where houses front the lake. And so a person can just stick to those beach sections, eh ?

 

[releventchair]

Well then if it's an all-fired crime to walk along the shore, then: Certainly there are public beaches @ lake-Michigan (like where you can launch boats, where there is adjacent parks, etc....), right ? That aren't where houses front the lake. And so a person can just stick to those beach sections, eh ?

The hell is your problem Tom?
There are launches. They are not public beaches. You pay to use them. They are regulated and patrolled. (Trust me ,I've been caught in them. And do detect inland launches in my area.)

State park. National park. Private park. Choose one and look up it's regulations.
No ,don't call and inquire about metal detecting.