Mini Cannon Ball?

[GoldenEagle]

Found on a WI farm during an excavation project, neighbors found a brick size piece of pure copper and green colored arrowheads.
where = Medford WI
weight= 4 ounces
metal type= steel
age= unknown

Who can solve this one?

 

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[TheCannonballGuy]

Welcome to TreasureNet.

Since you are brand-new in the What-Is-It forum, here's some friendly-intended advice. It's not a good idea to attach an identification request for a different object onto the end of a previous ID request about a different object. The reason: most people will not bother to read all the way down through 19 old replies to the new request at the bottom of the old discussion. So, instead, please start a new discussion.

Meanwhile... you may have mis-measured the ball. If it is actually 2.26-inches in diameter, its weight would be approximately the same as the weight you report for your ball.

Super-precise measuring is crucially necessary for correctly identifying metal balls. To do that, you'll need to:
1- use a hammer to knock the thick rust-encrustation off the ball on opposite sides of it
2- use Digital Calipers to precisely measure the ball's diameter, as shown in the photo below.

If your ball's "cleaned" diameter is indeed only 2.0 or 2.1-inches, its 1-lb 7.5-oz weight means it is a Steel ball (not cast-iron)... and there were no Steel grapeshot or canister-balls.

 

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[CC Hunter]

Regarding the subject of copper cannonballs or shot, the use by Republic of Mexico forces is well noted and quite widespread. Many years ago, while in conversation with noted relic dealer and digger, Charles Nash, he recounted to me the rather abundant amount of non-ferrous and excellent sounding large "copper" shot recovered from Mexican War period sites "South of the Border".

The following archeological report from Palo Alto Battlefield in Texas mentions;
"Most of the Mexican cannon shot was made of copper or cupreous alloys, as opposed to the iron shot used by the U.S. One Mexican copper solid shot was recovered during the 1979 archeological investigation of the Palo Alto battlefield. This artifact weighed 4.76 pounds and measured 3.12 inches in diameter (Bond 1979:19)."

Palo Alto Battlefield NHS:A Thunder of Cannon (Chapter 6)


Here are actual recovery photos of both the smaller size Mexican "cannister shot" in copper, in addition to a larger size cannon shot, in copper alloy as well.

http://www.carha.org/id77.htm



In areas of our Western United States, Pacific Coast, and Southwest, these large "copper" shot have also turned up on occasion in context with other pre-statehood artifacts.



Your expertise and insight here on TreasureNet, Professor Cannonball Guy, is a great addition to our vast learning opportunities and identifications of historical artifacts. I thoroughly enjoy reading your well versed replies, and have often benefited from gaining new knowledge.



For clarification herein though, there is a point one must surely interject and correct, and that is the fact that Mexico is actually included within North America, rather than Central America!



North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Central America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



CC Hunter

 

[Petrie502]

I think cannonball guy has answered this in this thread like 3 times now but were still going in circles he stated, not in North America then he corrected himself by saying ok in the southern part of Texas there were brass or copper balls! So I don't understand why we are still trying to correct what he said by saying there were copper balls shot by the Mexican army and in Mexico, he said that!!!! Like 7 post back

 

[CC Hunter]

Petrie502,

The many Internet forums have rapidly gained popularity in recent years, for exchanging information and seeking properly attributed provenance for artifacts and relics. With the ability to search vast archives simply with keywords and photo reference, quite often these discussions are accessed at later dates, and used once again to prove or disprove theories and identifications.


This particular thread here on "Copper Cannonballs" came back to light yesterday, after more than a year of dormancy (original thread was started in 2011, and prior recent activity was June of 2012), whereupon a new member here posted a query on an unrelated iron ball, seeking hopeful identification. TheCannonballGuy provided a helpful and informative response for the newly posted inquiry. The points brought out there, are all ones I certainly concur with wholeheartedly (Welcoming a new poster, proper etiquette in beginning a new topic on a new thread, importance of proper measurements and weights, etc..).

My respect for the invaluable knowledge and polite explanations provided free of charge by great members here like TheCannonballGuy, surely cannot be overstated.


Knowing though, that often these discussions may be referenced in coming months and years by untold individuals far across the globe, and possibly utilized to once again add hopefully properly attributed identification to items, instills within my heart a steadfast devotion to provide the best accurate identifications when and where possible. Furthermore, when noticing possible discrepancies that could be mistakenly taken as fact at some point, one surely must take the honorable approach and politely address these for clarity.


The only "correction" that was offered in my earlier response, was to enlighten that North America includes Mexico, and any statement addressing "North America" in whole, can and will technically encompass all parts and areas therein.

Also, since the earlier discussion involving "copper cannonballs" principally discussed recoveries in and around Mexico, and use of smaller "cannister balls", my point was to expound upon the fact that additional examples of larger size copper balls (possible cannonballs rather than cannister balls) have been noted. Furthermore, the confines of geography by no means end at the current borders of Mexico, as there have been similar artifacts found on numerous occasion within California (part of the Republic of Mexico prior to the Treaty of Hidalgo in 1848).


CC Hunter

 

[CC Hunter]

pfecteau,

Welcome to TreasureNet!

For informative and helpful identification, the community of knowledge here is exceptional indeed. When dealing with potential cannon or artillery related material, the expert information supplied by TheCannonballGuy is indeed a veritable asset to us all.

Addressing your iron ball find purely though as a proximity to location, we must account for the fact that mining activity far exceeded any military activity in the Arkansas River area of Colorado. The first major strike in the Rockies for gold, brought the "Pikes Peak Rush" beginning in 1858. The following half century or more, saw mining expansion with prominent strikes in silver, lead, and other materials, with ever expanding mining development of these regions. Iron balls in varying sizes, have long been used extensively in the crushing and milling of materials in mining operations. Even without taking into account any precise measurements or weights on recovered iron balls, the probability of an iron ball recovered in the mountainous regions of the Western United States, points to more likely use in mining and milling activity, as opposed to use as cannonballs.

CC Hunter

 

[kuger]

.........

 

[Thommy]

Keith-Tx, thank you very much for the info that Mexican Army copper canister-balls have been dug at the 1847 US-Mexican War battle of Palo Alto, Texas.

I was already aware that the Mexican Army had fired copper canister-balls at the US Army during the 1847 battle of Cerro Gordo, which is in Mexico. That is why my post said no copper cannon/grape/canister-balls were "used in North America." (For anybody who doesn't already know, Mexico is part of Central America, not North America.)

I do appreciate hearing your personal testimony about Palo Alto. In the future, whenever I answer a digger's question about finding a copper/brass/bronze cannonball, I will include a mention of Palo Alto, in extreme southern Texas near Mexico, as the sole exception to the "none in North America" answer.

Also, for people who don't already know, copper is a frequent byproduct of Silver mining and refining. Insofar as is currently known, during the centuries when Spain owned Mexico, the Spanish did not use any of the surplus copper from silver refining for making artillery balls. But after Mexico became independent from Spain, the Mexicans did manufacture some copper canister-balls, apparently due to a brief shortage of iron because of the US Navy's blockade of Mexican seaports during the 1846-48 Mexican-American war.

A bit of additional explanation: Field Artillery canister-balls are between 1.07 and 1.48 inches in diameter, and thus contain only 3-to-7 ounces of copper. Apparently, during the iron-supply shortage the Mexicans felt they could afford to use some of their surplus copper supply for making 3-to-7 ounce canister-balls, but they didn't use it for "full size" cannonballs, which weigh 6-to-12 pounds.

Edit: BosnMate's post arrived while I was still typing mine. He is right, absolutely NO cannonballs were ever marked with their weight. If a ball has a number telling its weight on it, it is definitely not a cannonball. Gunners don't need to know a ball's exact weight ...but Shot Put contestants and Counterweight users do.

OMG, you actually made a small error, TheCannonballGuy, Mexico is in North America.

(Source: worldatlas.com)
North America, the planet’s 3rd largest continent, includes (23) countries and dozens of possessions and territories. It contains all Caribbean and Central America countries, Bermuda, Canada, Mexico, the United States of America, as well as Greenland - the world’s largest island.

But you are much more knowledgeable about cannon ammunition than I am, for sure.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Back in the 1960s when I was in high-school, the Geography class textbook listed Mexico as part of Central America, not North America. Apparently, that view got changed sometime during the past 50 years. I'll ask y'all to pardon me for being "still stuck in the Sixties". Gallagher-Stuck-in-the-60s - Trailer - Cast - Showtimes - NYTimes.com

Speaking as a Historian, it's worth mentioning that for several centuries the Mexicans themselves have called the people of the US "Norteamericanos" - which clearly shows the Mexicans themselves do not not view Mexico as being part of North America.
Norteamericano | Define Norteamericano at Dictionary.com
"Norteamericano: Spanish noun and adjective -- a citizen or inhabitant of the U.S., especially as distinguished from the peoples of Spanish-speaking America."

 

[Aubreywhymark]

Hi

I have found a 5 ounce (182.8g) bronze or brass cannon ball that is 1 1/4 inches (31.5 mm) in diameter. It was found on Carrabuyan Island, Pangasinan, Philippines in a rice field (16°16'8.30"N, 119°57'58.62"E). The material it is made from is identical to my Bronze Spanish Signal Cannons. Any ideas on age and origin?

 

[Bell]

Mexico is part of North America, and brass or cuperious shot are found in several other places as well.