Musket barrel markings help

[Saskhunter]

Can someone out there help me find the age and type of musket this was. It is obvious most of the barrel is missing and it has been used as a crowbar. In the first picture the marks on the barrel are, a crown over an intwined GP, bellow that 24, bellow that a crown over a V or a roman numeral 5. On the opposite side of barrel the marks are, John Clive, looks to be five slashes three up and down and two angled, a small jp stamp and a 6 or 9.Any help would be great,thanks.

 

[timekiller]

I'm sure your mark should be a Crown over GR which is the mark/stamp for Royal Cypher Georgius Rex (King George III) (proof mark)
Your other is most likely the broad arrow mark/stamp (inspector's mark).
Take Care,
Pete,
LIKE THIS.

 

[artyfacts]

I see the hash marks on the area marked on the right. Looks like someone was keeping count. Is there writing on the area I have marked on the left? Arty

 

[Saskhunter]

I'm sure your mark should be a Crown over GR which is the mark/stamp for Royal Cypher Georgius Rex (King George III) (proof mark)
Your other is most likely the broad arrow mark/stamp (inspector's mark).
Take Care,
Pete,
LIKE THIS.

I tried to take a clearer picture for you to see. I think the two top letters are BP don't see a line down on the P. The top crown is the same as the bottom one. Hope the pic helps.

 

[Saskhunter]

I see the hash marks on the area marked on the right. Looks like someone was keeping count. Is there writing on the area I have marked on the left? Arty

It has John Clive stamped there.

 

[timekiller]

I'm sure your mark should be a Crown over GR which is the mark/stamp for Royal Cypher Georgius Rex (King George III) (proof mark)
Your other is most likely the broad arrow mark/stamp (inspector's mark).
Take Care,
Pete,

LIKE THIS.

I tried to take a clearer picture for you to see. I think the two top letters are BP don't see a line down on the P. The top crown is the same as the bottom one. Hope the pic helps.

There was a BP mark but yours don't look like it to me.The first two pics. I'll through them in just for sake.
The other two match yours better in my opinion.The last two pics. go together.
I also add a site for you to figure your gauge from.
Then I've gotta go for awhile maybe someone will help you out I'll check back later.
Take Care,
Pete,
Here is a site to figure your gauge out/bore size/bullets it shot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_(bore_diameter)

Info on first two pics.
As viewed from the breech end, the Birmingham proof marks were (right-left): (1) the Provisional Proof - a crown over BP, (2) a bore gauge number (25 gauge was considered the regulation bore size - .577 caliber), (3) the View mark - crossed scepters with a crown and a V, (4) another 25 gauge mark, and (5) the Definitive Proof - crowned scepters with the initials BPC. The drawing provides details of what the markings actually looked like - the original stamps were so small that these markings are generally hard to make out.


Info on second pics.
The London commercial proof marks were, from the breech (right-left): (1) Provisional Proof - a lion rampant above a torque, over the letter G in script, (2) View mark - a crowned V, (3) 25 gauge mark (not present on all London guns - sometimes seen on the bottom of the barrel instead), and (4) Definitive Proof - a crown over an intertwined GP for Gunmaker's Proof.

 

[Saskhunter]

You are right Pete I typed the wrong letter,it should be GP.Thanks for the info,found out they are London marks.The crown over GP gun makers proof for black powder shotgun,muzzleloader barrels.The crown over V is the view mark and the 24 is 58 calibore.Would I be mistaken to assume it was made early 19th century because John Clive was making barrels then.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Good work Timekiller.

 

[timekiller]

You are right Pete I typed the wrong letter,it should be GP.Thanks for the info,found out they are London marks.The crown over GP gun makers proof for black powder shotgun,muzzleloader barrels.The crown over V is the view mark and the 24 is 58 calibore.Would I be mistaken to assume it was made early 19th century because John Clive was making barrels then.

"Would I be mistaken to assume it was made early 19th century because John Clive was making barrels then."
Could be 1800's maybe lost at a later date.I'll say this though you wouldn't dig a barrel in that good of shape from the ground here were I live. Ground here dosen't like that iron to salty. I bet I could take a New barrel bury it and one year later dig it up and clean it & would not look that good. It's in great shape & a cool find.
Take Care,
Pete,

Good work Timekiller.

Thanks BCH,Just helping out. All on here do a great Job. Makes for a nice place & even pulls new people in wanting to know what they have.I've seen quite a few first time posters lately. So we must be doing something right.
Take Care,
Pete,

 

[Saskhunter]

Thanks for everyones help.Where I live it is all Jack pine sand, things almost last forever here.

 

[BosnMate]

Besides the information you have already on the proof marks, the barrel looks to me like it came from an Indian Trade Musket. Trade muskets were manufactured in a style that was demanded by the Indian customers, so most all of them that were built specific for the trade, even if made in different countries, all resembled one another, because the Indian customers demanded that the gun had a serpent side plate, a seated fox stamped into the lock, an extra large trigger guard etc., which to them indicated quality. However these gun were made quite cheaply, sometimes without a butt plate, and if they did have a butt plate, it was nailed on instead of using hand made screws, but the guns almost always had the brass serpent side plate. When reading about trade guns, you will see them called by a number of names, Hudson Bay guns, Hudson Bay Fukes, Northwest Guns are a few of the names, but they are all the same type of gun, and mean the same thing. These guns were the fore front of the frontier, and as civilization moved west, those Indians that were first encountered wanted this style of gun, and then later as they became more familiar with firearms, the trade rifle came into use. The plains Indians liked the smooth bore trade musket for hunting buffalo horseback, because they were easier to load on a galloping horse. Modern reproductions of the trade musket have the octagon to round barrel with wedding bands, but the barrels are straight, and the original muskets I've seen seem to all have tapered barrels, heavy at the breech and tapering to the muzzle. I googled Indian Trade Musket and there is some good information, but a lot of it is about modern reproductions. But if you search a bit, you should find some stuff that you might be interested in.