My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

[franklin]

That is why Christopher Columbus wanted to sail West was because of the debris he found washed upon the beaches of Portugal. Parts of ships and even two Indians as he called them. He finally got the Pope to send him West in 1385 to 1386. CC had already been to North America that is why he knew how long it would take him to get to "land." There were ships coming to this country as early as 2450 BC as by the last post I made. The copper hauled from Lake Superior to Europe and England was over one half billion pounds. With ships carrying about 20,000 pounds each it would have taken 25,000 ship crossings to deliver that much copper. King Solomon had been mining gold, silver and copper all over this country. Where do you think all the gold bars found by Doc Noss came from? The Spanish sure as hell did not mine that much gold and leave it behind.

 

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[DaveVanP]

It was never denied that coconuts existed earlier on the Pacific Coasts of South America, Central America or more specifically the West Coast of Panama.

Cheers, Loki

All of Martyr's locations mentioned in his "Decades" are located in the Caribbean; the west coast of Panama was not reached until 1513. "Decades of the New World" was published in 1511, and was, in fact, a series of articles written between 1493 and 1508. Additional information was added to complete his first volume in 1511. He didn't have the Web...so likely he was writing information that was several years old.

The information about Ft. Orange was from a conversation I had with Dr. Charles Gehring, of the New Netherland Institute. I was assisting with a research project concerning one of my ancestors, and we got on the subject of the Curse of Oak Island show. He is a big fan, but does have a few issues with their "archaeological methods"...and mentioned the disparity of the coconut fiber dating. I don't know if the lab findings are published anywhere.

 

[franklin]

All of Martyr's locations mentioned in his "Decades" are located in the Caribbean; the west coast of Panama was not reached until 1513. "Decades of the New World" was published in 1511, and was, in fact, a series of articles written between 1493 and 1508. Additional information was added to complete his first volume in 1511. He didn't have the Web...so likely he was writing information that was several years old.

The information about Ft. Orange was from a conversation I had with Dr. Charles Gehring, of the New Netherland Institute. I was assisting with a research project concerning one of my ancestors, and we got on the subject of the Curse of Oak Island show. He is a big fan, but does have a few issues with their "archaeological methods"...and mentioned the disparity of the coconut fiber dating. I don't know if the lab findings are published anywhere.

I have a letter with the actual test results. I simply have not been able to locate it yet. I will post it later. Here is a letter that was attached with the test results.
Another letter dated 1966 revealing the extent of the coconut fiber in Smith's Cove.

 

[dmg2016]

I have a letter with the actual test results. I simply have not been able to locate it yet. I will post it later. Here is a letter that was attached with the test results.
Another letter dated 1966 revealing the extent of the coconut fiber in Smith's Cove.

Carbon Dating Docs from Les MacPhie:
https://www.oakislandcompendium.ca/...9/carbon_dating_-_les_macphie_compilation.pdf

 

[franklin]

Thanks. I still did not see the page I have in my computer but can not find.

 

[ECS]

... There were ships coming to this country as early as 2450 BC as by the last post I made.
The copper hauled from Lake Superior to Europe and England was over one half billion pounds.
With ships carrying about 20,000 pounds each it would have taken 25,000 ship crossings to deliver that much copper.
King Solomon had been mining gold, silver and copper all over this country...

Where is the documented sources of these alleged voyages and mining operations "as early as 2450 BC"?
What type of ships did these alleged BC mariners have that could carry 20,000 pounds across the Atlantic?
Statements, Franklin, that are contrary and in total opposition to the establish documented verified historical record to be seriously considered as having the veritas of actual substance, REQUIRE supporting facts as proof that such statements are NOT flights of self fulfilling fabricated fantasy existing only in one's imagination.

 

[franklin]

Where is the documented sources of these alleged voyages and mining operations "as early as 2450 BC"?
What type of ships did these alleged BC mariners have that could carry 20,000 pounds across the Atlantic?
Statements, Franklin, that are contrary and in total opposition to the establish documented verified historical record to be seriously considered as having the veritas of actual substance, REQUIRE supporting facts as proof that such statements are NOT flights of self fulfilling fabricated fantasy existing only in one's imagination.

Read my post yesterday in the "Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre and maybe the Truth Post #2646

 

[ECS]

Read my post yesterday in the "Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre and maybe the Truth Post #2646

With a reference from Zena Halpern and other speculative remarks, the Oak Island Archaeoastronomy Group article POST #2646 is NOT considered a reliable factual source, and is just a continuation of all this current fabricated fictional flurry of pseudo history.
Reckon I am not on that ignore list you mention on POST# 3624 on that same thread.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Re: that posted article. In the first paragraph it contradicts itself. In one sentence it says the copper is "95.5% pure and shows no signs of smelting". But the very next sentence says it has inclusions and slag from when it was melted and recast into distinctive (oxhide shaped) ingots. That is the definition of smelting using heat to melt. Impurities sink or, more often, float as dross.

Those were cast ingots from a [likely] Canaanite/Lebanon region ship (at least made of wood indigenous to that area and Turkey) found off the coast of Turkey. Nothing whatsoever to do with Lake Superior OR Oak Island. No one else seems to believe the copper was from the Great Lakes region. Ship contained tin as well. Maybe they swung by Alaska to pick that up? (Robot - - jump in here with your Cornwall miner statue).

https://www.archaeology.org/exclusives/articles/642-turkey-cape-gelidonya-uluburun-bronze-age

 

[lokiblossom]

The information about Ft. Orange was from a conversation I had with Dr. Charles Gehring, of the New Netherland Institute. I was assisting with a research project concerning one of my ancestors, and we got on the subject of the Curse of Oak Island show. He is a big fan, but does have a few issues with their "archaeological methods"...and mentioned the disparity of the coconut fiber dating. I don't know if the lab findings are published anywhere.

And for this I am supposed to throw away a scientific study completed in 2013 by five reputable scientists.

Doesn't the Salt Lake City group use Martyr's description of tame deer in the Americas to explain a reference to tame goats in a publication? I, myself will go with the scientific study as proof of a non-coconut Atlantic Basin prior to 1499.

I believe you are getting your information on Martyr from the book "History of the Coconut Palm in America by O.F. Cook published 1901, beginning with pg. 275. If so you are wrong in claiming Martyr ever used the word "coco", that was added by the English translator Richard Eden. In another area you are confusing accounts by, the Spanish historian known as Oviedo, also translated by Richard Eden and used by Cook to further his own premise. The fact is that Cooks premises were refuted by the 2013 study.

I do wish to make it clear that in no way do I discredit Orator Cook's main body of work as an accomplished Botanist! In writing his 1901 book he simply didn't have the tools available to later botanists.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

... A few Templar vessels arrived there in 1308 with coir lines (lines is sailing talk for ropes), packing, sleeping mats and ect., parked at Oak Island for an unknown amount of time repairing vessels, perhaps even scuttling some beyond repair, while planning their next move.
The coconut fibre dating is evidence of this.
If not how did the coconut fibre dated to before the mid 1300s by the reliable Beta Analytic, get there?

Purveyors of pseudohistory or cryptohistory always cherry pick evidence to support their arbitrary linking of disparate facts and events to form an alleged "pattern" in their revisionist history quest.

On this thread Poussin's ARCADIA painting has been linked to Acadia, to the Shugborough garden folly, to the Templars setting to sea from La Rochelle, going to Scotland to fight at Bannockburn, and then the voyage to Oak Island/Nova Scotia to bury Holy relics recovered during the Crusades and other treasures, leaving behind random pieces of coconut coir as proof of their presence in North America.

With all these random "links" circumstantial evidence, it becomes highly apparent under actual historical research, these "links" are pure speculative imagination supporting one's personal pet theory of an event that never happened.
If this Templar voyage actually occurred, there would be no need to piece together all these unrelated facts attempting to convert lore, legends, sagas, myths, and imaginative tall tales into literal truth, there would be the existence of actual records and evidence beyond discarded samples of coir.

 

[franklin]

Purveyors of pseudohistory or cryptohistory always cherry pick evidence to support their arbitrary linking of disparate facts and events to form an alleged "pattern" in their revisionist history quest.

On this thread Poussin's ARCADIA painting has been linked to Acadia, to the Shugborough garden folly, to the Templars setting to sea from La Rochelle, going to Scotland to fight at Bannockburn, and then the voyage to Oak Island/Nova Scotia to bury Holy relics recovered during the Crusades and other treasures, leaving behind random pieces of coconut coir as proof of their presence in North America.

With all these random "links" circumstantial evidence, it becomes highly apparent under actual historical research, these "links" are pure speculative imagination supporting one's personal pet theory of an event that never happened.
If this Templar voyage actually occurred, there would be no need to piece together all these unrelated facts attempting to convert lore, legends, sagas, myths, and imaginative tall tales into literal truth, there exist actual records and evidence beyond discarded samples of coir.

I hope I live long enough to make you eat all of your post.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Seems a little extreme. As for me: I will be happy to revise my opinion if anything of value or historical significance is ever found more than 15 feet deep on Oak Island.

 

[lokiblossom]

If this Templar voyage actually occurred, there would be no need to piece together all these unrelated facts attempting to convert lore, legends, sagas, myths, and imaginative tall tales into literal truth, there would be the existence of actual records and evidence beyond discarded samples of coir.

The voyage did occur, Templars did land on Oak Island, the coconut coir is proof of that. The other items you mention are for the most part clues left for others to find what they took to Nova Scotia to hide. I have at least 10 clues of which a couple firstly point to Canada's Acadia, a few others that point to Nova Scotia and finally a site near Annapolis Basin that I have visited, some of these you have mentioned in your post, and some of those you mention are not from me.

Why would a group (few) men trying to hide themselves as well as something of importance leave obvious records? Three men are alleged to have escaped from Alcatraz, did they leave records, or did those who looked for them expect to find records? What happened to J.B. Cooper? Where is, or was their ever "the Dutchman's Gold"?

Everyone of my posts on this thread, which I started btw, concerns the same topic, the hiding of the Holy Grail (an object well described by Dan Brown accidentally or otherwise). Over the past several years I have made a few (very few) adjustments to my premise's, but they have basically remained the same. In all of the arguments with you, which any body can go back through and confirm, I don't think you have won any. The number of vessels available, the number of escapee's, the seagoing ability of the vessels, the route itself, the why, the existence of the coir, the dating of the coir, the origin of the coir, the voyage was too unsafe, and many more. Reminds me of a song "When will you ever learn"?

Cheers, Loki

 

[DaveVanP]

I drive a GMC Acadia...was it built by Templars?

Dan Brown is a novelist - a writer of FICTION...he states so himself. He admits that he writes his fiction in such a way as to create controversy=publicity=sales, and intentionally includes a "bibliography" and allusions to "truthfulness" in his novels' Forewards and Acknowledgements. (One "bibliography" listed "'The Necronomicon', by A. Azred" as a "source"). His description of the Grail is drawn from ANOTHER fictional fantasy, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" written in 1982, the authors of which (Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln) admit that it was "all conjecture and circumstantial".

Raymond Khoury, Robyn Young, Jack Whyte, and even "The Saint" series (by Leslie Charteris) have made a few dollars doing the same, perpetuating the Templar MYTH as "fact", the stories are so oft-told and ingrained that uncritical thinkers accept them without question.

 

[ECS]

The voyage did occur, Templars did land on Oak Island, the coconut coir is proof of that.
The other items you mention are for the most part clues left for others to find what they took to Nova Scotia to hide.
I have at least 10 clues of which a couple firstly point to Canada's Acadia, a few others that point to Nova Scotia and finally a site near Annapolis Basin...
In all of the arguments with you, which any body can go back through and confirm, I don't think you have won any. The number of vessels available, the number of escapee's, the seagoing ability of the vessels, the route itself, the why, the existence of the coir, the dating of the coir, the origin of the coir, the voyage was too unsafe, and many more...

In all of out rather civil discourses, which as you remarked "any body can go back through and confirm", all you have presented as "proof" has been an accumulation of circumstantial legends, lore, facts and events cherry picked to fabricate support for your that totally unproven revisionist history that upon real research scrutiny, lacks actual documented verified "clues" or "proof" beyond imagination that the Templars ever landed on Oak Island, while denying and ignoring real verified historical research that proves otherwise.
You have mentioned "winning" many times, if that is your perceived goal concerning our discussions, then you need to cease with this wishful manufactured chain of circumstantial evidence along with claims of clues and proof, and present documented facts based on reality that support these random supposed connections, that, my friend Loki, would be winning.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Obviously coir is used to trail the Templars throughout their travels and conquests. You just wouldn't find one without evidence of the other.

I'm sure Loki has a whole list of other sites that had coir present where Temlars had stayed or passed through.

Interestingly, if the fibers found were recognizable coir that was "holding up" and not fully decomposed they may have been on Oak Island as recently as 20 YEARS AGO! Coir, being 100% biodegradable, doesn't last very long in the ground. That's why it is used in erosion control matting at job sites . . . like around swamps and excavation sites. You can leave it there when your are done because it soon returns to the soil.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jgam1955/27/6/27_6_435/_pdf

https://acfenvironmental.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/S.1Coir-Mats-Spec-CM400.pdf

 

[ECS]

The educators as you call them have been wrong for thousands of years and will continue to be wrong...

All purveyors of cryptohistory and pseudohistory deny the validity of the accurate consistency of proven documented history and the legitimate research by credited academic and professional historians, often claiming that that these experts are "wrong" and/or are involved in a conspiracy cover up of real history, while promoting fringe historical revisionism and falsification theories by only accepting their claimed highly questionable nonprofessional quasi historian pulp writers sources as true.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Besides; we all know it was ancient aliens from the Masonic Nebula.

 

[ECS]

Much of what I post is not proven fact but is all verifiably possible ...

"Verifiably possible"? How does one verify a possibility as being the source of a solid foundation for a theory?
At least you did state that what you post "is not proven fact", which categorizes the "verifiably possible" as pseudohistory.