My Christmas Present To You

bigscoop

Gold Member
Jun 4, 2010
13,376
8,696
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
(I didn't proof read this so excuse any typos or errors that you might encounter. Too tired to deal with it tonight.)

There are exist some not-so-obvious curiosities within the Beale tale that, upon further scrutiny, make absolutely no sense at all and I'm going to explain one of those to you now.

So in it's basic form, and at face value, the party selected a man to hold in secret three ciphers that, in event of their demise, he was then to solve the ciphers and then commence to the distribution of the funds to the parties whose names are listed in cipher 3. Now bear in mind, all of this was allegedly done to keep the treasure safe in its hiding place, somewhere six below the ground, just one other person beside the party members, Morriss, being trusted with the secret. Does anyone see a future problem with this arrangement, a problem that goes beyond the obvious problem of this one man possibly dying before his task could be carried out?

But you see there is a problem here, a big problem, and it's one that even a simpleton would had to have addressed as he looked into the future and the possibility that Morriss might actually have to carry out his task. So let's assume that something did happen to the party and that Morriss did receive the alleged key and that it was now up to him to recover the treasure and to distribute it to the parties listed in cipher. Question, and it's a HUGE one, how is one man going to recover a treasure when it took the manpower of ten men to transfer and to hide that treasure?

This is a HUGE issue for Beale and the party as in their effort to keep their secret it seems they had no concern how Morriss might go about recruiting his help or if that help could be trusted. Not only this, but the money has already been divided into equal portions, or shares, so how is Morriss going to accommodate his recruited help as they would certainly want something in return for their labors and trust, if the help Morriss eventually selected could even be trusted in such an affair? So you see, things aren't quite as simple as they first appear, not even close. Why would 30 men go through so much labor, risk, and trouble to hide their all-important treasure and entrust just one man with secret if they held such little concern how that man was to conduct his task in the event that he was required to?

The answer to the above is actually pretty simple, if the story is even partially true then those men were concerned with how Morriss was to conduct his task in the event that he was required to, no doubt they would have been extremely concerned. Not a chance that they would go through all of the alleged labors and risk and extra safety net involving Morriss only to have absolutely no concern, or say, over who Morriss was to select as his help. No possible chance as well that the alleged treasure was going to be hidden on any fashion that wouldn't allow Morriss easy and quick access without all that extra help. So if you're out there laboring away digging holes then you're wasting your time because it couldn't have been hidden in such a way, to do so would just have defeated the entire purpose of having Morriss as that safeguard. If these men had any common sense or intelligence at all, which they allegedly did, then you can bet that such a chance of complete ruin would never be left to Morriss. On the other hand it is very-very likely that this little quandary provides HUGE clue as to what is really in those two remaining ciphers and also just exactly how that treasure was hidden.

So let's assume the party did have enough forethought to address the possibility that Morriss might have to carry out his task and that they did take the appropriate measures to safeguard against complete ruin in that event, so how might they have arranged such an affair? Actually, I think the unknown author told you how when he referenced the cast iron pots with lids. Think not? The read on.....

Thirty party members, plus Morriss, so thirty-one cast iron pots, each already containing the appropriate shares. Now Morriss doesn't have to try to figure out how to divide the treasure because it has already been done for him. Not only this, but if hidden in an appropriate secure location then Morriss could access those cast iron pots one at a time, hand it over to whoever it goes to before proceeding with the next. This removes a great deal of burden and quandary from Morriss and also insures an accurate and easy distribution of the alleged funds. Suddenly the process is much easier for Morriss and if done right it even ensures that Morriss won't require any additional help from anyone other then the alleged names in cipher three as he could easily handle one cast iron pot at a time. Do you see where all of this is heading?

In truth there can only a be a couple of places where those alleged pots could have been deposited that would have allowed for this easy access and easy distribution of those already divided funds and none of those possibilities include having to dig holes or any challenging amount of mental and physical labors. To do it any other way is to put everything at carefree risk, if not certain risk, of complete and utter ruin. If the tale has any truth at all then not a chance that those alleged party members took that chance. You can count on that. :icon_thumleft:
 

OP
OP
bigscoop

bigscoop

Gold Member
Jun 4, 2010
13,376
8,696
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
BAH HUMBUG!
:laughing7:....if you want to believe that the alleged party was an assembly of complete morons then that's your choice. Grab a shovel and start digging those random holes just don't be surprised when all you turn up is dirt.....
 

Terry Soloman

Gold Member
May 28, 2010
19,424
30,111
White Plains, New York
🥇 Banner finds
1
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
Nokta Makro Legend// Pulsedive// Minelab GPZ 7000// Vanquish 540// Minelab Pro Find 35// Dune Kraken Sandscoop// Grave Digger Tools Tombstone shovel & Sidekick digger// Bunk's Hermit Pick
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
You don't mind if I "re-gift" your gift do you? :thumbsup:
 

OP
OP
bigscoop

bigscoop

Gold Member
Jun 4, 2010
13,376
8,696
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
You see, if the tale is true, then someone needs to clearly explain just how the Beale party ever thought that Morriss could recover, divide, and then distribute that wealth all by himself in complete secret? The truth of the matter is simply this, there is no possible way he could have pulled that off if the party buried that treasure in the assumed traditional sense. Not only would this require Morriss to undue the combined labors of ten men but it would also require him to go through the long process of sorting through that treasure, evaluating all the values of each piece, and then arranging that treasure into 31 equal portions, and then on top of this he would also have to deliver each portion to each listed party, or contact each one of them to inform them that he had those portions for them so they could arrange to come get it, and all of this having to be done in complete secret. NOT A CHANCE THAT HE COULD HAVE ACCOMPLISHED THIS unless that process had already been conveniently arranged somehow by Beale and party. So I think it very advisable that folks leave those shovels in the shed and that they ponder a different/new perspective...:icon_thumright:
 

audigger53

Hero Member
Mar 27, 2004
909
3,210
Severn, Maryland
Detector(s) used
None
Primary Interest:
Cache Hunting
Of the 30 members only 10 of them made the Cache? Sorry but human nature would not have that happen. All 30 would have been involved in the caching of the treasure. IMO
Now if 30 men knew where it was cached, or even 10, why would you in trust it to a NON member of the group?
Unless Beale did what pirate captains did and buried the other 9/10 guys to protect it, why wouldn't the survivors track him down (the other 20 men)?
Some have said it was a cover story for the KGC and as such it really occurred during or after the Civil War. In that case where did the Emeralds come from? Like all good mysteries, follow the money. again IMO
 

OP
OP
bigscoop

bigscoop

Gold Member
Jun 4, 2010
13,376
8,696
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Of the 30 members only 10 of them made the Cache? Sorry but human nature would not have that happen. All 30 would have been involved in the caching of the treasure. IMO
Now if 30 men knew where it was cached, or even 10, why would you in trust it to a NON member of the group?
Unless Beale did what pirate captains did and buried the other 9/10 guys to protect it, why wouldn't the survivors track him down (the other 20 men)?
Some have said it was a cover story for the KGC and as such it really occurred during or after the Civil War. In that case where did the Emeralds come from? Like all good mysteries, follow the money. again IMO

No credible evidence that the KGC ever had any true wealth of this proportion, just rumors and propaganda of such. And if the south would of had this kind of wealth then they could have bought allies and extended the war, maybe even turned it, so no real chance of this being a CW thing either despite popular belief of such.
 

OP
OP
bigscoop

bigscoop

Gold Member
Jun 4, 2010
13,376
8,696
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
"No real chance", eh...? FA FA FA LA!

No real chance. The south didn't enter that war to surrender or to be defeated, big money could have provided them a lot of options that they didn't have otherwise. The Per example, the French considered backing the south, something that could possibly have been bought if the south would have had the funds, etc., etc. And there are many such examples where $$$ could have provided the south better position. Plain and simple, they never had that type of money or they would have used it.
 

OP
OP
bigscoop

bigscoop

Gold Member
Jun 4, 2010
13,376
8,696
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Actually there's a lot of it.....just research the last two years of that war and it's no secret how the south was running short on funds, despite what all the romance and lore and propaganda dished/dishes out. :icon_thumright:
 

Rebel - KGC

Gold Member
Jun 15, 2007
21,680
14,739
YEP! PROPAGANDA written by the "side" that won the war, back then. Heh. Believe what ya will...
 

OP
OP
bigscoop

bigscoop

Gold Member
Jun 4, 2010
13,376
8,696
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Actually, a lot of southern records serve as provenance that the south was struggling financially. It's only after the war that southern interest started manufacturing all of that propaganda in regards to "the south will rise again" etc., etc. The simple truth is that they were defeated both physically and financially. So all of these legends about the south hiding huge sums of money are just that, legends. If they would have still had any measurable wealth/financing then they would have continued with the cause that they had spent what major wealth they had trying to win. :icon_thumright:
 

Rebel - KGC

Gold Member
Jun 15, 2007
21,680
14,739
NOPE, post-war re-construction in the SOUTH was done by REB/KGC funds; no HUGE stock-pile of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ was left, after that... X-mas present doesn't "fit"; will take it back for "day-after x-mas present exchange"; HA! You will soon be "off-topic", and will have to go to a DIFFERENT "Forum/Board"...
 

Last edited:
OP
OP
bigscoop

bigscoop

Gold Member
Jun 4, 2010
13,376
8,696
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
:laughing7:....no, not off topic at all. The topic is the obvious conundrum detailed in the narration, that being the impossible task left upon poor Morriss if in fact a true treasure of detail proportions was ever buried in the traditional sense, this leaving only Morriss with multiple feats that he could never hope to accomplish by himself. Doesn't matter which source one desires to select, the point is simply that Morriss could have never accomplished such a task on his own, and quit obviously so. So, unless there are actual "instructions in those cipher solutions detailing how the cache was arranged to accommodate his task" then the entire affair is badly aloof before it ever began. So "if" a treasure was ever hidden and "if" Morriss was actually the trustee of that hidden cache then, "those instructions/details have to be contained in those cipher solutions." There's no way around this if the party's alleged plan had any chance at all to succeed. And now folks know what to look for within those cipher solutions if they are indeed the real deal. :thumbsup:
 

Rebel - KGC

Gold Member
Jun 15, 2007
21,680
14,739
Ciphers...? BA HA HA HA! Just USELESS Ruses, like Cross-words Puzzle TODAY! ONLY for entertainment for VERY bored readers of 'Old...
 

OP
OP
bigscoop

bigscoop

Gold Member
Jun 4, 2010
13,376
8,696
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Ciphers...? BA HA HA HA! Just USELESS Ruses, like Cross-words Puzzle TODAY! ONLY for entertainment for VERY bored readers of 'Old...

Notice I have said "if" there is any truth to the tale. :laughing7: This is just one of those existing elements/conditions in the tale that true believers and hopeful cipher solvers have been overlooking in favor of traditional buried treasure tales and that same tunnel vision with the assumption that the Beale tale is the same, when quite clearly it isn't. :icon_thumright:
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Top