My experience with an LRL

[NCHinAK]

Here's my experience with an LRL.

My Uncle hosts a local treasure hunters club meeting at his home on a monthly basis. There's usually the same people present. We discuss metal detecting, prospecting for gold and local history. Great group of people.

After one such meeting a gentleman that had recently gotten involved with the club approached my Uncle and me as we were cleaning up. He asked if we'd heard of LRL's. At the time I didn't really know much about them other than what I'd seen in some advertising. My Uncle indicated that he's read up on them and is aware of what they are supposed to be capable of. Well anyway, this guy goes on to say that he has one that he'd like to sell, needs a couple hundred bucks and would like to sell us his LRL. The fella says it works like a champ, he can find gold nuggets, placer deposits, silver coins, gold coins, jewelry...you name it and it he can find it with this device. I'm listening to this guy go on and on about all the fine things that this device can find and thinking 'Well heck, if you need money to get out of the bind you're in why don't you just use this thing to find a few gold nuggets?' We listened to his spiel and then Ed, my Uncle, tells him if it can find one of his gold coins that he'd buy it from him. Ed had his wife hide a gold coin on their property while we were in the shop talking. We kept the fella busy so he couldn't see where Aunty hid the coin. Ed asked his wife to stay in the house while the three of us went out and looked for the coin with the LRL. We walked those 5 acres for about two hours, back and forth, this way and that way. Needless to say he never found the coin. Ed asked Aunty to come out and show us where the coin is and she pointed to the location and Ed tells the guy to look where she pointed. And sure enough, the guy picks up the coin. Afterward Ed tells me he had the guy pick up the coin so he couldn't claim that the coin wasn't there the whole time.

Anyway, neither of us bought the LRL from him. Funny thing though, if the guy would have just come up to Ed and asked to borrow a few hundred dollars Ed would have gladly given it to him. He'll never get that chance again. Yeah, he never showed up to another meeting...go figure.

I've been reading the LRL threads here on T'net ever since. I can't thank SWR, EE THr, woof, Carl, LSMorgan, and others (sorry, can't name them all) enough for keeping the pressure on the CA's. It seems like it's a full time job for some of you just to keep up with the responses from the people that claim that these devices work. The nonsensical, pseudoscience answers that are given for how these things work or why they don't work for some people could be the basis of a thesis on insanity.

I know this is purely anecdotal, but the way the guy was trying to sell this thing is no different than the way the LRL proponents talk about their preferred LRL's.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[Saturna]

This story sounds like a typical encounter with an LRL dreamer, with the usual excuses and non-performance.

(Oh yeah, and needing money, despite owning a magic gold finding machine)

 

[EddieR]

Hmmm...interesting how NO critics are demanding proof of the story...witnesses, video, pics, etc. THIS is exactly what I have meant in the past about pseudo-skepticism. As long as the story (evidence) goes the way they want it to, then any kind of proof is not needed. But let the story go the other way....and look out Sally!

NCHinAK, I'm not saying I doubt your story. I'm just noting the pseudo-skeptic version of the "scientific method". Kudos to you and your Uncle for wanting proof and not getting ripped off.

 

[Saturna]

I submit that the main reason would be that this story is entirely believable and would be what would actually happen if any LRL/dowser were to be tested in a similar way.

 

[fenixdigger]

Good show. That's where you press for finds that he made. A couple of questions. Did this guy say how long he had used it?

IF he had went straight to the coin, would you guys have bought it? Lastly, what kind was it? Thanks

 

[EE THr]

Hmmm...interesting how NO critics are demanding proof of the story...witnesses, video, pics, etc. THIS is exactly what I have meant in the past about pseudo-skepticism. As long as the story (evidence) goes the way they want it to, then any kind of proof is not needed. But let the story go the other way....and look out Sally!

NCHinAK, I'm not saying I doubt your story. I'm just noting the pseudo-skeptic version of the "scientific method". Kudos to you and your Uncle for wanting proof and not getting ripped off.

Eddie---

A story is a story. If the LRLers just told a story, and left it at that, it would be different. But they tell it over and over, constantly trying to prove to people that LRLs work, then insist that they don't want to prove anything.

It is this contradiction that causes us to ask the common sense questions that they cannot provide common sense answers to, that causes us to ask for proof. Then, their excuses for not providing proof, are all self-contradictive as well, just as in the story above.

 

[fenixdigger]

Sat, Lets see the flip side of that coin.

I make a post that describes how I found,, say a silver broach from oh,,1/4 mile, and get within 3 ft on the final pinpoint 75 ft away.
No other metal items within a 15 ft circle.

That is believable to any of the experienced LRL users, hence (see I used an SWR and EE word) no demands for proof from them.

Actually thinking about it, I don't think any have ever asked me for Proof. Guess they are just smart enough to tell.

Still flipping the coin, I find it hard to believe that an experienced user could not find a newly placed coin.

Well EE;
(this contradiction that causes us to ask the common sense questions) So therefore a contradiction causes you to ask questions you consider common sense even though you asked because you didn't understand to start with which caused a contradiction?

(are all self-contradictive as well, just as in the story above.) So what you are saying now is that his story is self-contradictory?
(See how I did that?)

 

[Saturna]

IF he had went straight to the coin, would you guys have bought it? Lastly, what kind was it? Thanks

If he went straight to the coin when I was standing there, sure. (I might ask for a few more back-up successes). Demonstrating success in front of anyone skeptical has never happened though. Never.

There are only two possible outcomes for a test like this.

(1) The LRL/dowser refuses to do the test for any number of excuses.
(2) The LRL/dowser fails to locate the test target. A number of excuses are offered.

These tests will always only ever be one of these two. The above story is the second one.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

IF he had went straight to the coin, would you guys have bought it? Lastly, what kind was it? Thanks

If he went straight to the coin when I was standing there, sure. (I might ask for a few more back-up successes). Demonstrating success in front of anyone skeptical has never happened though. Never.

There are only two possible outcomes for a test like this.

(1) The LRL/dowser refuses to do the test for any number of excuses.
(2) The LRL/dowser fails to locate the test target. A number of excuses are offered.

These tests will always only ever be one of these two. The above story is the second one.

You just told the whole story of skeptics there. And that's exactly why no one is falling over themselves to PROVE anything to skeptics. Because, just as you have admitted, it doesn't matter what they see, their mind is made up going in. And that's that.

 

[Saturna]

I just presented reality. The bottom line is that they can't do what they claim.


Generally if someone can do something that someone else says they can't do, the person typically wants to show them that they can.

Eg.
If someone says 'I can juggle six tennis balls'. If someone else said 'I don't believe you'. Guess what the juggler would then be happy to do ?
Yup. Pick up those six tennis balls, and darn well show them.

If anyone here could actually do what they claim, I'll bet they would love to show up those skeptics, (and collect a bunch of cash at the same time).

If YOU could prove some of the stuff you believe, I bet that proof would be put out instantly.



But the bottom line is ....

 

[NCHinAK]

Good show. That's where you press for finds that he made. A couple of questions. Did this guy say how long he had used it?

IF he had went straight to the coin, would you guys have bought it? Lastly, what kind was it? Thanks

He claimed that he'd found some nice sized nuggets using his LRL at a gold mine in interior Alaska. The gold mine caters to metal detectorists and large nuggets are found every season. Not sure how long he had it before trying to sell it to us. Absolutely, Ed would have bought it if he'd found the coin. He considered buying it from the guy even after he didn't find the coin, just to tinker with it.

 

[fenixdigger]

Wow, am I special or what?? I must be because that thing that never happens,,, happened in front of me and two other people. Cool

Just to clarify something that has been said many times in many ways,, ANYONE THAT OPENS THEIR MOUTH ABOUT A SIGNIFICANT FIND IS A MORON AND DESERVES WHAT THEY GET. SIGNIFICANT FIND,,,more than a coin or two. Is this too hard to grasp?

You choose ; Make a point -- prove yourself right--- have 15 mins. of fame---get bragging rights---get in deep shit with the gov. state, and any land owner where you have hunted recently AND possibly the law.

Any of this getting through? Where do you live that this is not true?

NCHinAK; I can relate, seen many, bought few. Any idea on brand or what it looked like?

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I just presented reality. The bottom line is that they can't do what they claim.

That's a conclusion. What are people to do with that? There's no way to turn someone away from what they already "know."

Generally if someone can do something that someone else says they can't do, the person typically wants to show them that they can.

Eg.
If someone says 'I can juggle six tennis balls'. If someone else said 'I don't believe you'. Guess what the juggler would then be happy to do ?
Yup. Pick up those six tennis balls, and darn well show them.

Not if the juggler knew they still wouldn't believe them, even after he showed them. It comes to a point where people don't want to play your childish games. They know, by your own admission, you won't believe it, no matter what you see.
But it wasn't the LRL users who said you can't do what they can do, it was YOU who said it.

If YOU could prove some of the stuff you believe, I bet that proof would be put out instantly.



But the bottom line is ....

Ah, and now we see the real nature of this. Saturna, they removed the religion board, so I guess you'll have to confine your unbelief to LRLs. Sorry. But what I believe HAS BEEN PROVED.

 

[fenixdigger]

I'm surprised it hasn't got down to "I dare you, I double dog dare you" It's almost there. Guess we'll have to pull out the henway and go with tapes or cd's ?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Thank You NCHinAK for your story..Looks like your Uncle was an informed consumer just like the own/operators have been posting for over a year now…Art

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good evening since MFD's rely to a large extent (apparently) upon the human factor, who's sensitivity is fluctuating hourly, they are subject to large errors from day to day.

'Practically no one has the same general results with IQ tests if they use different questions each time'.

In a negative attitude / situation it is easy to fail a test.

 

[Saturna]

It's pretty ridiculous, but consistent, to suggest that something like the juggling being demonstrated right in front of someone "still wouldn't be believed."

But keep clinging to that (along with your beloved 'bumble bees aren't supposed to able to fly) if it helps you though.

Wow, am I special or what?? I must be because that thing that never happens,,, happened in front of me and two other people. Cool

Yes, Fenix, you are special.

Just to clarify something that has been said many times in many ways,, ANYONE THAT OPENS THEIR MOUTH ABOUT A SIGNIFICANT FIND IS A MORON AND DESERVES WHAT THEY GET. SIGNIFICANT FIND,,,more than a coin or two. Is this too hard to grasp?

And has ALSO been said many times, so how come there are so many numerous large treasures found that HAVE been reported/publicized with conventional means or even by accident ?

 

[EE THr]

Well EE;
(this contradiction that causes us to ask the common sense questions) So therefore a contradiction causes you to ask questions you consider common sense even though you asked because you didn't understand to start with which caused a contradiction?

(are all self-contradictive as well, just as in the story above.) So what you are saying now is that his story is self-contradictory?
(See how I did that?)

Yes, I do see how you tried to do it.

And I did say there was a self-contradiction within his story.

The contradiction in the original poster's story was that the guy claimed that the LRL worked so well, and found so much treasure; yet he was in need of money.

The common sense question would be, just as the poster said, essentially, "if your LRL works so good, why are you in need of money?"

But in your example, you inserted the assumption that I ask questions because I don't understand. No, I ask questions mostly because I do understand. I ask questions when I see or suspect a contradiction. For example, when an LRL promoter says that his device is electronically operated, and "points" to a target---I ask him if he puts the handle in a vise, will it follow a target which is moved across in front of it. Of course the answer is "no." That's the only possible answer, because there is no power drive mechanism, electromechanical or magnetic, with which the device could move it's own pointer. The pointing portion is merely free-swinging, and is nothing more than a dowsing rod, at best.

But I ask for two reasons. First, to make sure I hadn't missed something. Secondly, to point out the fallacy of the claim, and let the LRL promoter know that I know that his claim is false. Of course, he always has the opportunity to explain in logical terms how it works, but nobody ever has---which means it doesn't work, and my suspicions were true.

I'm not trying to confuse anyone. I try to just keep it simple and straightforward.

And I never insult anyone unless they insult me first.

 

[aarthrj3811]

My experience with an LRL

EE..You have none...Art

 

[fenixdigger]

Never underestimate the power of stupidity.


Quote from: fenixdigger on Today at 02:10:19 PM
Just to clarify something that has been said many times in many ways,, ANYONE THAT OPENS THEIR MOUTH ABOUT A SIGNIFICANT FIND IS A MORON AND DESERVES WHAT THEY GET. SIGNIFICANT FIND,,,more than a coin or two. Is this too hard to grasp?

And has ALSO been said many times, so how come there are so many numerous large treasures found that HAVE been reported/publicized with conventional means or even by accident ? There are people that don't know better. A-hem,,

If you haven't noticed we test people to find the ignorance level before we "allow" them to become "Groovy". You first have to be"hip", then progress to "cool". I probably don't have to go any further do I?