Mystery Date on Lantern Wick Wheel Adjuster

[Don in SJ]

I was looking at some of my off the wall relics and noticed this wick wheel adjuster had some nice writing on it and once I photographed it I was surprised to see a date of 1771 on it.

At first I was not sure it was a date, since that seems too old, most of the lantern wheels I have found have mid 1800's patent dates on them. But, I don't think 1771 is a model number, since it logically reads as a PAT'D JAN 1771.

So, I sent an email off to a antique lantern collector and he did tentatively identify the P&A company as Plume & Atwood which was a Connecticut company. But, they only started business in the 1870's, one hundred years later.

The mystery now seems to be, what is the JAN 1771 for, I am sure if it is a Plume & Atwood that they would not be putting that info on one of their lanterns from the late 1800's, since if that date is valid, it would be a British Patent Date, since there was no USA in 1771.

Bottom line, sure is confusing the Pat'd date, so not sure how old this piece is, any help out there?

Don in South Jersey

 

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[PBK]

Although the list is not an exhaustive one, there doesn't appear to be any well-known British lamp manufacturer listed as "The P. & A. Mf'g Co." or corresponding to the initials "P. & A.":

http://oldcopper.org/oil_lamp_makers.htm

It might be either a date error (for 1871) or a false date, occasionally found on items which were in fact not patented at all.

 

[Montana Jim]

See the link... check out items 19 through 23... looks like the P. & A. MFG. CO. is circa. 1860-1900, 19th century.

http://www.musee-mccord.qc.ca/scripts/search_results.php?Lang=1&object=00774

 

[PBK]

After further checking, I'm almost positive that it's a Plume & Atwood burner adjustment knob. Notice the similarity to the examples below. Also, here is a link to a page on their patents, the first of which was in 1871, which would seem to lend additional weight to the date error 1771/1871.

http://www.thelampworks.com/lw_companies_p&a.htm#patents

 

[Montana Jim]

PBK... Agreed, I found P&A wick adjuster knobs on other brand lamps...

 

[Don in SJ]

It might be either a date error (for 1871) or a false date, occasionally found on items which were in fact not patented at all.

Well, the date error would not make sense either, since the earliest P&A did business was I believe in April 1871, I doubt a date error would have occurred, would think the workers back then took pride in accuracy. Now a false Patent Date, hmmmn, why would a reputable company do that, if you research P&A, they had a whole bunch of patents so I think that can be ruled out.

Both of your possibilities I have run through over and over yesterday and just does not make sense.

Montana Jim I have no problem with what the part is, or what they could have looked like, as a matter of fact on the one site I looked at they showed some P&A wheels with their Patent dates on them and one was similar but not written at all the same way., I will try and find that site again and post it.

Don

NOTE just saw you two posted again, I looked at that site before I posted this original message. Yes, similar, but again, does not explain Jan 1771.

 

[Dharmacy]

Maybe they were meaning January 17, 1871. Sometimes just the last two numbers of the year only used. ie Jan 17 71.

D.

 

[TreasureTales]

Maybe they were meaning January 17, 1871. Sometimes just the last two numbers of the year only used. ie Jan 17 71.

D.

I agree with this statement. I've found things from the 19th century in which the numerals 18 were assumed. Therefore Jan 17 71 is January 17, 1871.
Look closely on the item, Don in South Jersey, and perhaps you'll see a comma between the 7's. Although, that isn't always the case in their dates, either.

Just as we sometimes write 01 03 07, they did the same in the 19th century.

 

[Don in SJ]

Maybe they were meaning January 17, 1871. Sometimes just the last two numbers of the year only used. ie Jan 17 71.

D.

I agree with this statement. I've found things from the 19th century in which the numerals 18 were assumed. Therefore Jan 17 71 is January 17, 1871.
Look closely on the item, Don in South Jersey, and perhaps you'll see a comma between the 7's. Although, that isn't always the case in their dates, either.

Just as we sometimes write 01 03 07, they did the same in the 19th century.

Perhaps that is the only logical explanation....................

 

[PBK]

Source: http://www.thelampworks.com/lw_companies_p&a.htm#patents
"The Plume & Atwood Manufacturing Company was organized in January, 1869, albeit under a different name. It began as Holmes, Booth and Atwood when Israel Holmes, John C. Booth and Lewis J. Atwood formed a partnership after "defecting" from Holmes, Booth and Haydens... Lewis J. Atwood, a prolific inventor, dominated the field with 44 patents during this period, a whopping seventy-two percent of P&A's patents! It should be noted that Atwood also had a significant number of patents assigned to Holmes, Booth and Haydens when he worked there - at least fourteen between 1862 and 1870."

This certainly suggests to me that the firm, while operating under its original name— or Atwood as an individual applicant— could very well have obtained a patent in January 1871.

I still believe it is a date error, until or unless someone can find and post similar burner adjustment knobs bearing an authenticated patent date (presumably British) of 1771 made by some manufacturer.

 

[PBK]

Maybe they were meaning January 17, 1871. Sometimes just the last two numbers of the year only used. ie Jan 17 71.

Perhaps that is the only logical explanation....................

Oh, okay... I thought that you had already ruled out January 1871 altogether:

It might be either a date error (for 1871) ...

Well, the date error would not make sense either, since the earliest P&A did business was I believe in April 1871.

 

[Angelo]

On the link provided by PBK and on the pic on bottom at site there appears a Patent date.

Pat Nov 26.72

As suggested by Dharmacy.

Perhaps they used January as the time they started manufacturing as they did not receive their patent until April of that year. So I'm thinking that your find is about the earliest made.

Tony

 

[bill-USA]

Re: Jan 17.71

I even see the dot, just above the G and between the 7s.

 

[Michelle]

Re: Jan 17.71

I even see the dot, just above the G and between the 7s.

Yep....sorry

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: Jan 17.71

I even see the dot, just above the G and between the 7s.

Yep....sorry

Sorry about what??

BTW, I thought of the date being like that originally but on all the others I have, there is a seperation between the day of the month and the last two digits of the year, that is not the case on this one, and the dot or comma, is hard to see even on my high resolution original photo, almost at first appears like a blob on the G, so I had to assume 1771, since it was not seperated with any additional space between the 7's.

I am satisfied it is Jan 17, 1871 as the date, they did a bad job on their spacing, that is all........
It solves that part I did not understand, make sense, not a mis printed date, just spaced improperly...........

 

[Michelle]

The post I removed.....Wrong info This one may help...but I think it is solved already!http://www.thelampworks.com/lw_companies_p&a.htm

 

[Dharmacy]

Although not a wick wheel, I found an example of a modern style dating sequence on a little buckle I had dug sometime in the past:

This one dated 12.25.06 not as confusing as the date on the wheel, but I would think putting a date and a mfg. name all on the adjustment wheel of a lantern would not be an easy task anyway, so some spacing and/or period's being left off is acceptable.

D.

 

[PBK]

Only three lamp-related patents were granted the week of January 17, 1871— all to Rufus S. Merrill, then of Boston, MA:

#111,072 - Argand (kerosene) lamp

#111,073 - lamp chimney

#111,074 - lamp burner
http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid...&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

Evidently, one of these patents (presumably the third) was used by Plume & Atwood in the manufacturer of the burner from which this adjustment knob came. The patent may either have been assigned/sold to them by Merrill, or used by them on a royalty basis.

An excellent source of information for lamp research is the International Guild of Lamp Researchers, Ltd.:

http://www.lampguild.org/Default.html?Defaulttext.shtml&1

 

[Don in SJ]

PBK, that seals the deal, no doubt that is it. Nice mystery solved, kept a few busy researching and enjoying another aspect of this hobby, which is researching the history behind some of the coins and relics.

HH

Don in South Jersey

 

[PBK]

PBK, that seals the deal, no doubt that is it. Nice mystery solved, kept a few busy researching and enjoying another aspect of this hobby, which is researching the history behind some of the coins and relics.

HH

Don in South Jersey

Thanks, Don... it was fun chasing this one! Often the best part is the extra info picked up along the way.

All the best,
PBK