NE OKla. points

naturegirl · Aug 29, 2011

But not found by me, dang it! Cletus' Mom-in-law found them over the years by a small creek. she has been told there are some smart people on this forum, and is asking for help with age and culture, any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

first is a group picture, trying to show the flaking:

then a close up:

then three pictures of my favorite, it's a unifave blade, with archic(?) flaking...it's really nice!

then the next nicest one, the flaking on it is really nice too-Late archic-early woodland?

last is the third nicest, but seems to be rougher flaked

thanks for looking!

naturegirl · Aug 29, 2011

Gross! we didn't need the close-ups of my dirty fingers!! sorry, I was at work when I took the pictures :dontknow:

riverrocks64 · Aug 30, 2011

oblique transverse flaking on the blade and point looks like....blade looks like damaged angostura

eden maybe

....dont know to much about midwest point types

Charmin · Aug 30, 2011

This one is my favorite! Could it be an "Allen" or "Scottsbluff"? Nice stuff :icon_thumright:

.

olroy70 · Aug 30, 2011

The guy that did that one was a real artist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

very nice stuff!

naturegirl · Aug 30, 2011

Thanks for the replys guys! I'll look up those names, haven't had a chance too yet. thanks for the suggestions. The really nice one is a uniface, SO...does it quailfy to even have a name put to it? It doesn't matter, the flaking is so pretty on it, To me, it has an "allen" look. :icon_scratch:

The finder knows the history of her land back into the 1800's, I would like to give her some fairly reliable info on these pieces, because she does care, and they are so much older than the 1800's!

Thank you for the replies!

Aren't you doing any raindances Sandcreek? :dontknow:

Charmin · Aug 30, 2011

naturegirl said:
Thanks for the replys guys! I'll look up those names, haven't had a chance too yet. thanks for the suggestions. The really nice one is a uniface, SO...does it quailfy to even have a name put to it? It doesn't matter, the flaking is so pretty on it, To me, it has an "allen" look. The finder knows the history of her land back into the 1800's, I would like to give her some fairly reliable info on these pieces, because she does care, and they are so much older than the 1800's!

Thank you for the replies!

Aren't you doing any raindances Sandcreek?

Nope--no raindances for me(I'm relying on a Higher Power to come through for the rain! :angel7:

.).
Maybe we'll have a nice long, wet Fall!!! I look at all those flood waters on the east coast and wish that some of that could be funneled down here into Oklahoma and Texas.
:hello:

Carmon~~

Neogeo · Aug 30, 2011

If it's the one I am thinkin of....That may just be the best made gouge I have ever seen!!!!!!...

Neogeo · Aug 30, 2011

The more I look at it the more I am convinced.....Best made gouge ever!Early archaic.......Hate to be "that guy" BUT.....If she would ever like to get rid of it......Well you know the rest.... Great piece!

rginn · Aug 30, 2011

Nice to see those. Excellent knapping!

north1 · Aug 30, 2011

late paleo, parallel oblique flaking, angostura-like. my $.02.

naturegirl · Aug 31, 2011

Thank you everyone! It gives us a direction to study, now I can print some info for the landowner to read. Neogeo, a gouge? I guess that might be why the butt end is knapped the way it is, the narrow end is broken, but not by much, it makes sense, thank you! She knows 'historiclly' how her land was used, this will give her a whole new way to look at it.

It's a beautiful creek valley, surrounded by rough terrain, when I first saw it, I thought "wow, I could live here!", guess people have thought that for a LONG time!

naturegirl

Neanderthal · Sep 2, 2011

Your item is an end-scraper - "duckbill" form. It's not Paleo, it's not even early archaic. Believe it or not, it's much, much later. I have found (and seen many more found) throughout the area and not a single one has been found in association with early occupation. You sure can't tell that from the flaking on them though!

This brings to mind the Hopewell tools too, they created some of the finest parallel and oblique parallel flaked tools you will ever see. Their flake knives, scrapers and tools are usually larger than what you are showing though. They have been found in caches, one of the more notable ones came from just north of Ponca City, OK, in Kansas. It consisted of primarily large scrapers, all of them finely parallel flaked across the rounded dorsal side of spalls. They were all made of heat-treated Kay Co. chert. If not found where they were and out of that material people would swear they were much older.

Sorry, got off track. Your scraper is very late prehistoric to historic. On a site called Jug Hill (MY-18) in Mayes County, OK, I found several duck bill scrapers just like the one you are showing. They were found with Maud and Shetley points. Each of the duckbills were very fine and flaked parallel to oblique parallel (mostly the latter). I have found the protohistoric scrapers throughout the Ozarks area and in western Oklahoma Washita focus sites. Many of the Maud, Shetley, Fresno (for lack of a better term) triangles found with them share similar flaking patterns. Even though Perino puts a date of 700-250 B.P, I have found evidence of them being used even later.

naturegirl · Sep 2, 2011

Thanks Matt! I know you have commented on the really nice flaking of Hopewell in this area, so I always keep that in mind, I repeat what I learn to anyone who will listen too :laughing9:

This is the same site that Cletus found a really nice "turtleback" scraper, so it makes sense. I have a feeling the landowner will prolly appreciate that this is 'historic' and not paleo, 'cause it's her people who left it! Thank you for the response!

lisa