Need further investigation

[mkulltra]

Here's a link: http://ec2-23-23-94-117.compute-1.amazonaws.com/wgbh/roadshow/appraisers/

Check out the silver specialty.

 

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[2Minnesota]

Congrats on this find! I hope you can find your answers for them. Please keep us posted if/when you do find out more.

 

[diggummup]

These are definitely out of my league but I would think they are probably worth $2-$3k minimum I would think, even with the missing piece. Possibly more if extra research can be done to id the maker and the crest.

 

[tamrock]

That could very well be the price I could get out of these Diggs, as I did check a couple similar that sold recently on ebay . They seemed to be referred to as Georgian era "cast sterling candlesticks" The top piece missing is called a nozzle.

 

[tamrock]

Here's a link: Appraisers | Antiques Roadshow | PBS

Check out the silver specialty.

Thanks for the link mkulltra. I entered once to try and get my 2 tickets for ARS when they came to Denver, but wasn't selected. Also I've noticed folks enter for those ticket across the country with no intention of going and if they get their two tickets allowed, they put those on ebay for 2 to 3 hundred bucks and they do sell. I've been in the Pawn Star's place in LV. I only saw chump-lee. The place is a joke. People lined up bringing in their stuff and some ass offering nothing for the stuff or says they don't take those kind of things. Most of what I saw people bringing was the same kind of stuff you see them buying on the show. Most the stuff you see taken in on the show is all sitting in the place with outrageous prices, but I'm sure the money doesn't come from the pawn biz so much as these guys make well just being reality star actors. Still I do enjoy the show, as to Antiques Road Show.

 

[Butter Hat]

Tamrock- Congrats on the score. I believe if you go to the Antique Roadshow website, you can submit the item for an expert appraisal. You might be able to do it on the Pawn Stars website also.

I'd go with Roadshow...just a gut feeling.

What a find, Tam....

 

[Lost&Found]

George II candlesticks to be precise. I have a 1753 sugar caddy in storage that I got at a Salvation Army TS about 20 years ago. Saving it for a rainy day.

Just a thought: If they are a significant pair it might be worth it to restore the missing wax catcher with a copy made from the one you have. It won't be original but may bring a better price.

Just for an idea on retail price
http://www.ifranks.com/george-ii-silver-candlesticks

 

[silverdollarbill]

wow....really amazing finds. They did not look like silver to me and never heard of "cast sterling". Thanks for sharing.

 

[tamrock]

George II candlesticks to be precise. I have a 1753 sugar caddy in storage that I got at a Salvation Army TS about 20 years ago. Saving it for a rainy day.

Just a thought: If they are a significant pair it might be worth it to restore the missing wax catcher with a copy made from the one you have. It won't be original but may bring a better price.

Just for an idea on retail price
George II Silver Candlesticks

That very thought of having a replacement made did occur to me, plus I don't see it being all that difficult to reproduce. I did find as I mentioned the tops are referred as the candlestick nozzle and it does look like they can come up for sale from time to time.

 

[war-digs-it]

I think these are so neat, old and silvery that it took me over a day to reply! All I can say is you have found a pair of wonderful items and have enjoyed the thread. Glad you didn't go running to the nearest pawn trap and sell them at scrap prices.

Congratulations on a fine buy and I will keep watching for updates.

 

[gino22]

Anywhere that casts jewelry will be able to quickly and fairly cheaply make a silicone mold of the extant tray and cast a copy, should cost at most $50-75 over the price of the raw silver.

 

[tamrock]

Anywhere that casts jewelry will be able to quickly and fairly cheaply make a silicone mold of the extant tray and cast a copy, should cost at most $50-75 over the price of the raw silver.

Thank you gino22, I was trying to remember what those modern molds are made of. I have myself made a silver ring one time many years ago in high school shop with the lost wax process and a mold of plaster of paris, but it came out a bit ruff and I had to file and buff it out in the end. I also learned and did make aluminum parts with the casting box and method. There are many artisans of jewelry in my area, so if and when I ever get around to having a duplicate made, I'll have an expected price I can negotiate with. I have plenty of scrap silver that could be used, but I'm not sure the artist could use the dirty old silver for the task. I would think the jewelry making raw stock silver would be a bit pricey ? ?

 

[tamrock]

This morning looking more to find info on this crest of each stick. I do believe they are a crest for a Scottish family clan. The unknown name of this Scottish clan I just can't pin down any that are attached to this motto (vinctus non victus). It sure would have been easier if these Scott's just put their family name on the crest. The best online list of family crest I've found so far is at this link. You will see why I believe the origin of an owner of these sticks are Scottish. List of Scottish clans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - I also have a hunch the attributes engraved on these candlesticks could have been done years after the hallmark P date of 1750. I believe it wasn't uncommon to purchase old silver and add personal presentations on the old silver item later in those days. Seems I saw something like that practice on Antiques Road Show, were a person had a presentation piece of old sterling with engraved information dated long after the piece was made.

 

[texasred777]

Gee, what a find, Tamrock! I missed the forum for the last couple of days. I went through on Friday and 'favorited' what I wanted to go back to. I spent yesterday and today going through those. This morning I went through the 'new posts' for the period that I missed. Now I'm trying to look at all of them and reply to the ones that I want to say something about.

Yes, please, keep us posted on these! I remember in 1964, of 65, working in a store that was grocery, market, and hardware. The manager traveled to New Orleans (I believe) and made a bid on an S & H Green Stamp redemption center warehouse that had burned. The bid was accepted. We got some sterling candle holders that weren't damaged except for a little smoke, which we cleaned from them. I believe we sold those for $25 each. I don't know what they would bring now; but the ones you have, being so old, should bring a fortune! Congratulations!!

 

[gino22]

Thank you gino22, I was trying to remember what those modern molds are made of. I have myself made a silver ring one time many years ago in high school shop with the lost wax process and a mold of plaster of paris, but it came out a bit ruff and I had to file and buff it out in the end. I also learned and did make aluminum parts with the casting box and method. There are many artisans of jewelry in my area, so if and when I ever get around to having a duplicate made, I'll have an expected price I can negotiate with. I have plenty of scrap silver that could be used, but I'm not sure the artist could use the dirty old silver for the task. I would think the jewelry making raw stock silver would be a bit pricey ? ?

My place charges very close to spot; $40 for 36.4dwt per last invoice. Spot is around $35 for that amount.

They generally won't use your scrap, but most places will take it and give a substantial discount.

 

[tamrock]

The follow is info sent via PM by other member as to the possibilities of what these candlesticks may be, by silversmith and name for coat of arms. Still in question is the proof of the items being authentic 18th century antiques with authenticity of engraved inscriptions and hallmarks. At least I in the green as the items being made of silver.

The maker could be Samuel Taylor, registered London Silver Smith 1744, VINCTUS NON VICTUS is the Galway coat of arms(Irish) meaning chained but not conquered.

 

[Red-Coat]

Just doing a bit of tidying up on some older threads, mainly for the benefit of anyone searching the site for information, but @tamrock is still with us.

I don’t see anything which links that particular crest to a Scottish Clan. It appears to be the crest of the Worms family, as seen in this 19th Century engraving for Maurice Benedict Worms (1805-1867), which is probably a book frontispiece:
.

He had Austrian connections as the son of Benedikt Moses Worms and Schönche Jeannette Rothschild, brother of Baron Salomon B. de Worms. His maternal grandfather was the founder of the Rothschild banking dynasty. With his other brother Gabriel, Maurice invested in a plantation in Ceylon to grow coffee and tea. His nephew, son of the Baron of Worms, Henry de Worms (1840-1903) was a politician raised to the peerage with the title of Baron of Pirbright, in the County of Surrey in 1895. The Pirbright family also used that VINCTUS NON VICTUS (bound but not conquered) motto, but not that crest.

REF:
https://www.colleconline.com/it/items/158724/vieux-papier-ex-libri-worms


The candlesticks are lovely and sterling hallmarked for London, 1750. The maker mark is a script ‘SJ’ which is for Simon Jouet, registered in February 1748.

 

[tamrock]

Just doing a bit of tidying up on some older threads, mainly for the benefit of anyone searching the site for information, but @tamrock is still with us.

I don’t see anything which links that particular crest to a Scottish Clan. It appears to be the crest of the Worms family, as seen in this 19th Century engraving for Maurice Benedict Worms (1805-1867), which is probably a book frontispiece:
. View attachment 2124799

He had Austrian connections as the son of Benedikt Moses Worms and Schönche Jeannette Rothschild, brother of Baron Salomon B. de Worms. His maternal grandfather was the founder of the Rothschild banking dynasty. With his other brother Gabriel, Maurice invested in a plantation in Ceylon to grow coffee and tea. His nephew, son of the Baron of Worms, Henry de Worms (1840-1903) was a politician raised to the peerage with the title of Baron of Pirbright, in the County of Surrey in 1895. The Pirbright family also used that VINCTUS NON VICTUS (bound but not conquered) motto, but not that crest.

REF:
https://www.colleconline.com/it/items/158724/vieux-papier-ex-libri-worms


The candlesticks are lovely and sterling hallmarked for London, 1750. The maker mark is a script ‘SJ’ which is for Simon Jouet, registered in February 1748.

Thank you RC. FYI, These candlesticks was a thrift store purchase. When they were posted there wasn't a forum for thrift store finds at the time.