Need help IDing early bullets please

[Old Dude]

Need help ID'ing early bullets please

Hi all. Looking for help ID'ing these old round balls. The larger weighs 390 grains and is .611 in. The smaller ( maybe a pistol round? ) weighs 151 grains and is .477 in. Thanks for looking.

 

[Beeps in my sleep]

Man I am trying so hard to find this and it is driving me nuts. I cannot find a match! I wonder if the Patina measurements are what is throwing me off. Musket Balls ( round balls to those who hate the term) are my favorite thing to find!

 

[Old Dude]

Man I am trying so hard to find this and it is driving me nuts. I cannot find a match! I wonder if the Patina measurements are what is throwing me off. Musket Balls ( round balls to those who hate the term) are my favorite thing to find!

You think it's driving YOU nuts?! Lol. I sure was hoping TheCannonballGuy would come on. I have to agree with you, Beeps. They sure are fun to find. I always wonder if the person shooting was getting dinner or trying to save his life. A great part of our wonderful hobby, isn't it? Keep looking for me! I appreciate all help!


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[BosnMate]

.611 would probably be a .62 caliber rifle ball. In my .62 I shoot .610 balls with a .017 pillow ticking patch. Of course it could also be a musket
ball, .62 relates to 20 balls to the pound of lead, which equals 20 gauge, like a 20 gauge shotgun, or a smooth bore musket. .477 relates to a
.44 caliber revolver bullet, like an 1861 Colt. Those balls were over sized so that when loaded into the cylinder a ring of lead was cut off the
ball as it was pressed down onto the powder.

 

[Beeps in my sleep]

.59 Cal for the big one? I could be wrong but tonight the internet is just having fun taunting me

 

[Old Dude]

Thank you Bosn! Great info. The patina on the little ball sure is white! It also has a flat spot on one side. Think it's been fired? The larger ball almost looks like it was just a bit large for the barrel and has a slight ring around it. Hope the pic shows that.


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[Old Dude]

I know, Beeps. I'd really like a site that ID's by weight and/or size.


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[Beeps in my sleep]

.611 would probably be a .62 caliber rifle ball. In my .62 I shoot .610 balls with a .017 pillow ticking patch. Of course it could also be a musket
ball, .62 relates to 20 balls to the pound of lead, which equals 20 gauge, like a 20 gauge shotgun, or a smooth bore musket. .477 relates to a
.44 caliber revolver bullet, like an 1861 Colt. Those balls were over sized so that when loaded into the cylinder a ring of lead was cut off the
ball as it was pressed down onto the powder.

I was close!!!!!!

 

[Old Dude]

A+ for effort!


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[l.cutler]

No way to say what they are from, the larger could be from a large caliber rifle, or smoothbore trade gun or fowler. The smaller could be a rifle or pistol ball, but if your measurement is accurate, too large to be a revolver bullet. There were not always standard calibers in those days, many barrels were hand made and molds were often made to make balls to fit the gun.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

A chart telling the precise diameter and weight of lead pistolballs and musketballs does exist. It is on page 67 of the book "Cicil War Projectiles II - Small Arms & Field Artillery" by W. Reid McKee and M.E. Mason. Similar info is given on various pages of the "Handbook Of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges" by Dean S. Thomas and James E. Thomas.

Important note:
The weight of cast lead balls can vary a ittle bit from the weight-info given in those books, due to presence of airbubbles trapped inside the lead during the casting process.

Old Dude, the weight of the smaller ball in your photo indicates it is indeed a .44-caliber pistol ball. Rifling-marks on the ball account for why it is a bit larger than .44-inch in diameter.

There SEEMS to be a semi-flattened area encircling both of the balls, which indicates they have been fired.

The larger ball's weight (390 grains) is extremely close to the weight of a .640-inch diameter musketball (392 grains) mentioned in the list on page 67 of the McKee-&-Mason book. Perhaps the semi-flattened area encirccling your larger ball reduced its diameter to the .611-inch diameter you reported.

The flat spot on the smaller ball was made by the pistol's rammer. You say there is a "ring" on the larger ball, but I can't quite make it out in the photo. Are you talking about the semi-flattened area encircling the ball? Or did you mean there is an indented circle on it? If that's what you meant, it was made by a rifle's ramrod.

 

[Old Dude]

A chart telling the precise diameter and weight of lead pistolballs and musketballs does exist. It is on page 57 of the book "Cicil War Projectiles II - Small Arms & Field Artillery" by W. Reid McKee and M.E. Mason. Similar info is given on various pages of the "Handbook Of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges" by Dean S. Thomas and James E. Thomas.

Important note:
The weight of cast lead balls can vary a ittle bit from the weight-info given in those books, due to presence of airbubbles trapped inside the lead during the casting process.

Old Dude, the weight of the smaller ball in your photo indicates it is indeed a .44-caliber pistol ball. Rifling-marks on the ball account for why it is a bit larger than .44-inch in diameter.

There SEEMS to be a semi-flattened area encircling both of the balls, which indicates they have been fired.

The larger ball's weight (390 grains) is extremely close to the weight of a .640-inch diameter musketball (392 grains) mentioned in the list on page 67 of the McKee-&-Mason book. Perhaps the semi-flattened area encirccling your larger ball reduced its diameter to the .611-inch diameter you reported.

The flat spot on the smaller ball was made by the pistol's rammer. You say there is a "ring" on the larger ball, but I can't quite make it out in the photo. Are you talking about the semi-flattened area encircling the ball? Or did you mean there is an indented circle on it? If that's what you meant, it was made by a rifle's ramrod.

Thank you very much, Sir! I thought the flat spot on the small ball might be from a ramrod, but I wanted someone such as Bosnmate and yourself to confirm that. The very minute bit of knowledge I have about this matter has been learned here reading posts from you great members. As far as the larger ball, I was referring to the semi-flattened area encircling the entire bullet. It is apparent to me in the picture and I hope it is there too. I think maybe this is from the ball being slightly larger than the barrel and seating it as well as force from being fired caused this as it traveled down the barrel. Is this correct? Again, I and other members really do appreciate information you so willingly share.


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[TheCannonballGuy]

Old Dude wrote:
> As far as the larger ball, I was referring to the semi-flattened area encircling the entire bullet.
> It is apparent to me in the picture and I hope it is there too. I think maybe this is from the ball
> being slightly larger than the barrel and seating it as well as force from being fired caused this
> as it traveled down the barrel. Is this correct?

The semi-flattened area encircling the ball could be caused in two ways:
1- ramming a slightly oversized ball down the muzzle... which is possible to do, but it's rather difficult and time-consuming to do in combat, when you particularly want to load-&-shoot as fast as you can.
2- loading an oversized ball into a breechloader with a sufficiently large breech chamber... firing it through the slightly smaller bore would create the flattened area encircling the bullet. The McKee-&-Mason book lists a .61-caliber Confederate "Swinging Barrel Carbine" breechloader, see page 190 in that book.

By the way... in my previous reply, I mis-typed a page number as 57 but I meant page 67. I've now fixed my typo-error in that post.