Need help on coat of arms on old swivel cannon

[smokeythecat]

This is from a small swivel cannon in cast iron. The coat of arms consists of a crown and shield. Inside the shie ld is a row of dots right next to the inner shield outline and inside is an oval crest. I think it's Spanish. Any help would be appreciated.

 

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[gunsil]

Pretty much all modern made small cannons are mass produced. It doesn't pay to make one-offs when making a mold and casting metal. One thing to look for on more quality cannons is if the bore is drilled or machined out and it will be quite smooth. If the bore is cast in and not machined out it will have a rough surface indicating a cheap manufacture. I love cannons, have probably a hundred antique small (3"-14" barrels) and most all of them shoot. Do not try to shoot (even with just a paper wad) any cannons with a cast-in bore.

 

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[taz42o]

It's real similar to that listing, but no I didn't pay anything near that for it. Thanks for the help. It's still a really neat piece, regardless of when it was made.

So can we get a yes or no answer ? Is this the same barrel as the one in the ebay listing?
I dont want to know if it looks the same , but if it is the very same one.
I ask because i would like to know If there are two of these know or if its the same one.

 

[Mackaydon]

taz42o, I'd guess the OP can tell us that, for sure.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

In examining the group of closeup photos of the cannon's emblem at the Ebay auction webpage, I notice that it has a coronet atop the shield. A crown represents royalty (king & prince, etc). A coronet represents ranks of the Nobility class, such as duke, viscount, or baron.

A coronet's top with seven knobs/points represents the rank of Viscount. The coronet on the cannon has seven knobs/points.

So, because the cannon's emblem is capped by a coronet, I think the emblem may be the Family crest/coat-of-arms of a Viscount, not a nation's coat-of-arms.

Of course, the cannon's emblem may be a "fantasy" creation, intended by the cannon's maker to give an appearance of antiquity. But if that's the case, why use a Viscount-type coronet, rather than simple a generic Royalty Crown?

If the mini-cannon's Family-crest/coat-of-arms is a real one rather than a fantasy-creation, perhaps somebody will eventually find a match for it on a Livery or Heraldry website website, or book.

We know that some very-wealthy Nobility families had a salute-cannon on the estate's ground's, for firing at noon and/or sunset (to signal the end of the work-day), or to welcome the return of the family patriarch from his travels. Maybe (just maybe), Smokeythecat's tiny (7"-long) cannon is a genuine antique one, possibly made for the children of a Nobility family. I think its very small size indicates it wasn't intended to be the family estate's "real" salute-cannon.)

One of the super-closeup photos posted by Smokeythecat appears to show file-marks on iron cannon's cascabel (the breech-end knob). The use of a file to smooth the iron often (but not always) indicates manufacture in the latter-1800s or later. Prior to that time, files which were capable of cutting iron were difficult (and thus very expensive) to manufacture. That is why casting-sprues on cannonballs were typically removed with a chisel, not a file.

In closing, let me say publicly that some of the above statements are just "theorizing" about various possibilities. I do not intend them as a solid declaration that Smokeythecat's mini-cannon is a genuine antique. it could indeed be a 20th-Century "novelty item." I just felt some of its characteristics (such as the coronet) were intriguing, and worth mentioning.

 

[smokeythecat]

Thanks guys. I think I'm going to find somebody handy with tools and get some kind of little mount made for it. Maybe something set into a piece of driftwood. And yes, not that it matters, but that is the same ebay seller, but a different listing as I did not pay $400 for it. As I said before, it's just plain cute. I can't tell how the bore is made. I don't have the proper kind of light to see down it. (3 D cell maglite did not work.) Thanks for the info on the sand casting too. Definitely not something to do in the living room. And yes, there is a crown on the top of it. At least it has file marks, and not Dremel tool marks. I've dug pieces of real Rev War cannons before, and have seen some early toy cannons, but this little guy was just too cute to pass up. I guarantee if you commissioned an artist to make one for you, it would be very costly, so I'm thinking it's not new.

 

[taz42o]

Thanks guys. I think I'm going to find somebody handy with tools and get some kind of little mount made for it. Maybe something set into a piece of driftwood. And yes, not that it matters, but that is the same ebay seller, but a different listing as I did not pay $400 for it. As I said before, it's just plain cute. I can't tell how the bore is made. I don't have the proper kind of light to see down it. (3 D cell maglite did not work.) Thanks for the info on the sand casting too. Definitely not something to do in the living room. And yes, there is a crown on the top of it. At least it has file marks, and not Dremel tool marks. I've dug pieces of real Rev War cannons before, and have seen some early toy cannons, but this little guy was just too cute to pass up. I guarantee if you commissioned an artist to make one for you, it would be very costly, so I'm thinking it's not new.

Yes It does matter if its the same one in the ebay ad when you are trying to research something and want to know if there are two know to exist . What does not matter is what you paid for it , I really dont care if it was free or a million dollars.
But it seems you avoided the question of it being the same one just because you dont want anyone to think you paid 400$ or more for it. Not the best way to get help ID'ing something.

 

[Mackaydon]

Taz42o,
I agree; and as long as (IMO) this 'game' continued, my desire to assist faded to zero. Just saying.....
Don.....

 

[Broken knee]

Yes It does matter if its the same one in the ebay ad when you are trying to research something and want to know if there are two know to exist . What does not matter is what you paid for it , I really dont care if it was free or a million dollars.
But it seems you avoided the question of it being the same one just because you dont want anyone to think you paid 400$ or more for it. Not the best way to get help ID'ing something.

Taz, it is the one on ebay the reason I asked for more pic's was the mark I saw on the ebay image but I guess the op only wanted us to see the seal or crest till pressed for more pic's?
the mark can be seen on the ebay image and this is the op's pic same mark. There is only one?
BK

 

[Broken knee]

Hay, at least he didn't claim he found it by a lake and wonder if it came off a interstellar transport ship!
that's good for 2 thumbs up!! HH
BK

 

[smokeythecat]

I thought I was clear. It's the same piece.