✅ SOLVED Need ID’s on 2 Civil War bullets please

[ModernMiner]

So I was going through some of the CW bullets I’ve dug back in 2007-2014.
As I was putting the .58 cal 3-ringers together I noticed these two bullets were different.
Does anyone know what these are?
Both have solid bases.
One has 3 rings and one looks to only have 2 rings.
I have the measurements in the photos and put them next to a common .58 caliber 3-ringer for reference.

Thanks for any help,
MM

 

[Whynotnow?]

Merrill carbine? It looks like your 2 ringer might have 3 rings too. Its probably the same thing, but maybe fired by the looks of it

 

[ModernMiner]

Merrill carbine? It looks like your 2 ringer might have 3 rings too. Its probably the same thing, but maybe fired by the looks of it

Thanks for that input. Yeah, the one looks fired to me too.
MM

 

[ModernMiner]

So here are a few more pix of the two bullets. Both are the same height of .90
but the rings really don’t line up.
Any more guesses?

 

[cmthunder]

Can you get the weight in grains?

 

[ModernMiner]

Can you get the weight in grains?

Ok, so here’s what each one weighs in grains. See photos.

Again, I don’t think they are the same bullets because the rings don’t line up when put side by side. See photo above.

What do you think?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Hbot37 is on the right track. The 3-groove bullet is a .54 Merrill. The other one is a fired .52 Spencer.

They are shown as bullet #91 and #87 in the "Handbook of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges" by Jim & Dean Thomas.

What looks like a third groove on your Spencer bullet is actually what the bullet gurus call a "cartridge crimping-groove." It helped the bullet stay firmly seated in the cartridge's mouth. The photos below show an unfired Spencer bullet (removed from the cartridge) and a fired one, for comparison. Look closely and you'll see that the crimping-groove's shape is not the same as the ordinary body-grooves/rings above it.

 

[Whynotnow?]

Hbot37 is on the right track. The 3-groove bullet is a .54 Merrill. The other one is a fired .52 Spencer.

They are shown as bullet #91 and #87 in the "Handbook of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges" by Jim & Dean Thomas.

Nice ID! The spencer is tough to make out through the dirt but I can see it now.

 

[ModernMiner]

Awesome job guys!!!👍
I really appreciate all of the help.
I’ve been trying to get my relics more organized during my down time.
I didn’t even realize that I had put these two in with the 3-ringers I had dug in the past.

Would those bullets be Union, Confederate, or both?

Time for me to buy some more books. 😀
Thank you,
MM

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

ModernMiner asked:
> Would those bullets be Union, Confederate, or both?

The Confederates did not manufacture Spencer bullets. However, because some CS state regiments were issued (pre-war) Merrill Carbines, the Confederates did manufacture some Merrill bullets. But the great majority of Merrills are yankee-made. The CS-made ones are either the same version as the US, or slightly different. The exception is the Richmond Arsenal CS Merrill, which looks very different, having only a single body-groove.

 

[ModernMiner]

ModernMiner asked:
> Would those bullets be Union, Confederate, or both?

The Confederates did not manufacture Spencer bullets. However, because some CS state regiments were issued (pre-war) Merrill Carbines, the Confederates did manufacture some Merrill bullets. But the great majority of Merrills are yankee-made. The CS-made ones are either the same version as the US, or slightly different. The exception is the Richmond Arsenal CS Merrill, which looks very different, having only a single body-groove.

Thanks CBG. 👍
I’m learning. I also have some Enfields with the rosewood plugs and about five 3-ringers with the “57” base.
So many different CW bullets out there it’s amazing! 👍
MM

 

[Whynotnow?]

Thanks CBG. 👍
I’m learning. I also have some Enfields with the rosewood plugs and about five 3-ringers with the “57” base.
So many different CW bullets out there it’s amazing! 👍
MM

The variety of civil war bullets, even among the same type, makes them probably my favorite thing to find. Each one can really tell a story.

 

[ModernMiner]

The variety of civil war bullets, even among the same type, makes them probably my favorite thing to find. Each one can really tell a story.

My too. I told my wife last night, I would love to know who was holding each one of these bullets. They are such a personal find. Especially the carved ones.
Do you prefer to clean the dirt off of them or leave them natural?
I haven’t really done much cleaning on mine.
MM

 

[cmthunder]

I had concurred on the Merrill but was struggling with the other one! But now that The Cannonball Guy chimed in the search is over. Nice job as usual and excellant explanation!

 

[scruggs]

Hbot37 is on the right track. The 3-groove bullet is a .54 Merrill. The other one is a fired .52 Spencer.

They are shown as bullet #91 and #87 in the "Handbook of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges" by Jim & Dean Thomas.

What looks like a third groove on your Spencer bullet is actually what the bullet gurus call a "cartridge crimping-groove." It helped the bullet stay firmly seated in the cartridge's mouth. The photos below show an unfired Spencer bullet (removed from the cartridge) and a fired one, for comparison. Look closely and you'll see that the crimping-groove's shape is not the same as the ordinary body-grooves/rings above it.

Good job Cannonball Guy!

 

[Whynotnow?]

My too. I told my wife last night, I would love to know who was holding each one of these bullets. They are such a personal find. Especially the carved ones.
Do you prefer to clean the dirt off of them or leave them natural?
I haven’t really done much cleaning on mine.
MM

I usually clean them because I like the white patina. I do have a couple that I didn’t do anything to cause they came out of the ground weird colored.

 

[Davers]

Hbot37 is on the right track. The 3-groove bullet is a .54 Merrill. The other one is a fired .52 Spencer.

They are shown as bullet #91 and #87 in the "Handbook of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges" by Jim & Dean Thomas.

What looks like a third groove on your Spencer bullet is actually what the bullet gurus call a "cartridge crimping-groove." It helped the bullet stay firmly seated in the cartridge's mouth. The photos below show an unfired Spencer bullet (removed from the cartridge) and a fired one, for comparison. Look closely and you'll see that the crimping-groove's shape is not the same as the ordinary body-grooves/rings above it.

I was just about to say I thought '90%' the 2nd bullet was a Shot Spencer , the Good Lord Knows I've dug a good bit of them here in Cobb County Ga ; Just NW of Atlanta .

 

[Davers]

My too. I told my wife last night, I would love to know who was holding each one of these bullets. They are such a personal find. Especially the carved ones.
Do you prefer to clean the dirt off of them or leave them natural?
I haven’t really done much cleaning on mine.
MM

I've cleaned or 'soft brushed' my ( Camp David Bullets ) & many others but in my last 2-3 years of digging ; those are still GA Dirt covered , some in dirt clods =Cool IMO & many 2018 Gardner's ( rare for my area / 2010's ) 52 cal Long Green En-field types remain as they were dug .

 

[ModernMiner]

I've cleaned or 'soft brushed' my ( Camp David Bullets ) & many others but in my last 2-3 years of digging ; those are still GA Dirt covered , some in dirt clods =Cool IMO & many 2018 Gardner's ( rare for my area / 2010's ) 52 cal Long Green En-field types remain as they were dug .

I think I’m going to leave my bullets as-is. I like the way they look the way they came out of the ground. I guess it just means more to me. Personal taste.
Thanks for the reply. 👍
MM