Non Motorized Dredge ?

[jog]

Has anyone ever considered trying to run the pump on a floating dredge with a water paddle wheel and gearing and eliminate the engine, is it possible ? I know water speed would play a big part of it. What RPM range do you run your dredge engine?

 

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[mxer47]

An electric motor is motorized. Otherwise a bank of batteries with an electric MOTOR could be used.

 

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[dredgeman]

An electric motor is motorized. Otherwise a bank of batteries with an electric MOTOR could be used.

Read the DFG suction dredge page for the Calif update. It is way past motors in the definition to shut us down.

The Calif reg will spread to other states

 

[Hoser John]

ASK HAHAHAHAHA LL NO-John

 

[Aurabbit79er]

These regulations have to be over turned. This is illegal legislation, based on false science and we can't let the greenies get away with it. I remember when fighting for our established rights and freedoms, under the law, had to have more than just some arbitrary and imagined political agenda to defeat those laws, like PROOF OF HARM, and DISPROVE THAT THERE ARE BENEFICIAL ELEMENTS to the environment from Suction dredging when done correctly. How many of you would convert your gas powered dredge to electric if it was required? I'm already planning to because 1. It's cheaper and cleaner than gas. 2. It's quiet, eco friendly, yet powerful. 3. A swift stream could make power.
Call me a dreamer, or a nut case, but I'm not wrong. When they outlawed hydraulicing in the 1800's it was easy to see the damage and destruction it caused, but this is different. There is no documented proof that suction dredging, done according to current regulations, has any permanent negative effect on the wilderness. In fact the opposite has been observed. Improved fish habitat, species that had been struggling improved. Removal of hazardous and dangerous materials permanently.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Uh... hydraulicing was never outlawed Aurabbit. No particular method of mining has ever been successfully outlawed.

You must have gone to school in California? I know they have put a little slant on the truth about mining history but California law specifically allows hydraulicing to this day.

 

[Aurabbit79er]

Show me

 

[Aurabbit79er]

I looked into it, you are right, it was just regulated to the point it was no longer profitable to operate that way.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I'll help you out here.

Here are the current (and past) California laws on hydraulic mining.

PUBLIC RESOURCES CODE
SECTION 3980-3985

3981. The business of hydraulic mining may be carried on within the state wherever and whenever it can be carried on without material injury to navigable streams or the lands adjacent thereto.

3982. "Hydraulic mining," as used in Section 3981, is mining by means of the application of water, under pressure, through a nozzle, against a natural bank.

 

[Aurabbit79er]

Interesting

 

[Clay Diggins]

I looked into it, you are right, it was just regulated to the point it was no longer profitable to operate that way.

It was the 1942 War Production Board Order L-208 that closed non-essential gold mines to conserve equipment and manpower for the war effort. That shut down both hydraulic and hardrock mining of gold throughout the United States. Many mines never recovered due to the regulated price of gold and the increased cost of restarting an abandoned mine. Most of the mining equipment had been re-purposed or melted down for the war effort.

The American and Sacramento river basins were the only areas regulated under the California Debris Commission. Areas like the Trinity were essentially unregulated.

The La Grange Mine was the largest hydraulic mine in American history and operated right up until the War Production order in 1942.

The La Grange mine operated from 1851 to 1942 and was the most productive hydraulic mine in
American history. Large scale hydraulic mining occurred between 1862 and 1918, when
landslides destroyed portions of the 26 mile long, La Grange flume that supplied 90 cubic feet
per second (cfs) of water to the mine. The mine reopened in 1932 and operated through 1942. The
La Grange mine operated six monitors between 6 and 9 inches in diameter. With a working head
of over 600 feet, the water jets had an effective range of 250 feet, working 500-foot tall hillside
cuts and pushing boulders exceeding six tons through the sluices without any operational interruptions.

Large scale hydraulic mining became the dominate form of gold mining in Trinity County in the
early 1860’s through the early 1900’s with small scale hydraulic mining continuing until 1970,
when the Costa hydraulic mine in upper Rush Creek closed. (Trinity Taskforce 1970; Bailey
2008).

Hydraulic mining is still legal in California today. It's just a matter of economics as to when it will be used again. Over 60% of the accessible Tertiary gold bearing gravels are still waiting to be mined in California.

 

[UncleMatt]

I love this idea, but in wilderness areas where the key words in the law are "mechanized", you might still get some resistance. At least I recall that was the word used, I will have to dig around in my archives.

I love the paddle wheel idea, and also the gravity dredge. But I have another alternative if anyone is interested. A company called Pursuit Dynamics purchased a steam powered water jet for marine use from an Australian inventor in the 1990's to develop commercially. Instead they developed it into a pump for use in food processing and other commercial uses. This pump is a flow through design, with low pressure steam being injected into the flow chamber from an annular injection nozzle around the outside of the chamber. When the steam hits the water, it transfers momentum to the water in the chamber, but it also contracts and condenses. Due to the shape of the chamber, and placement of the annular steam nozzle, this steam contraction serves to pull water through the pump. It has zero moving parts, and you can place your hand in the water flow at the end of the pump (it isn't hot). It also allows anything small enough to pass through the pump to do so without harming the pump or the object. So this pump could be placed wherever you want in your system.

Picture a small aluminum tank over a fire with a steam line running to your dredge, and a water feed line coming from the creek/river. Or a solar setup with a Fresnel lens or parabolic reflector to heat the water to steam. The steam only needs to be at 60 psi, so no heavy duty tanks or lines are required.

This company recently went under and started buying up online gaming casinos. They sold their marine drive jet to another company, but I doubt they are going to do anything with it. Of course, if CA law now says "vacuum" is forbidden in the device, this system will also be illegal.

 

[jog]

I'll help you out here.

Here are the current (and past) California laws on hydraulic mining.

PUBLIC RESOURCES CODE
SECTION 3980-3985

Clay Diggins
Thanks for bringing that to light, you beat me to it.
When I started this thread I didn't have any particular state in mind just weather it would work or has worked in the past. There has been talk about gravity dredges on here and I would just like to say that the Oregon DEQ has added that to the list of things you "WON'T" be able to do in Oregon when senate bill 838 goes into full affect so my only thought on what to do is fight these Aholes until the cows come home and "STUDY UP ON YOUR RIGHTS AND DON'T BACK DOWN AND GIVE ONE INCH"

 

[mxer47]

It is sad that we have to consider these methods of operating a dredge when gas engines work perfectly well. Interesting though.

 

[Sticks]

That would be sight to see. Maybe a 10' diameter, 3' wide water wheel in class 2 velocity water, driving a 4" diameter pulley on the shaft connected to the dredge pump?

You'd think that would be enough to spin the water pump plus the air.

Only downside I could see is the possibility of one of those floaty river keeper hippiecrite things getting themselves somehow caught up in the windings of said contraption.

What a sad ironic tragedy that would be.

One a positive note, I might have just invented a new word!

You win! Best comment ever on the internet. I loved that.

 

[placertogo]

The problem with all these gravity dredges and other concepts to get around the "motorized" definition is that the anti-prospecting forces will simply change the wording of their prohibitions and people who improvised will be left with a lot of expensive but useless gear. Make no mistake about it, "hands and pans" is what they are going for and, in many areas, no prospecting whatsoever.

 

[Jeff95531]

I leaned the golden rule long before I moved to CA. Never gamble with more than you're afraid to lose.
Nowadays there's another golden rule. If you build it, they will prohibit it.