Old Bullet Shell Casing

[mlw67]

It was pouring rain for most of the day, but towards the end it cleared up a bit, so I went to check on a site that I had seen in a really old neighborhood where it looked like they were planning some construction.  In the process I got lost and accidentally found a spot where I just missed some road reconstruction that had involved tearing out the whole street, even the old pavers underneath.  Unfortunately they had already covered it all in thick new gravel prior to the repave, so not much hope there.  But then off to the side I spotted a small dirt pile from the project that had  obvious signs of age, ie old bricks, old glass, etc.  I detected it as best I could but didn't find any coins.  I did however find a bullet shell that before I started reading these forums would have gone right into the trash pocket.  I'm hoping you can tell me something about it?  It measures 1-1/8" long, and if you look closely you can see that it narrows slightly in the center.  It has a tiny depression from a firing pin in the center of the end, inside that larger depression.  The bottom half of the inside of the shell is solid metal except for a tiny hole down in the center, so it weighs quite a bit for it's size.  The rim is marked "M 23", "PA 7794-5", "193".  Ring any bells? 

Oh, I also found a 1958 nickel and a 1944 wheat in a nearby sidewalk strip, but I didn't get pics of them.

 

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[Rusted_Iron]

I am not familiar with the markings offhand and have to check my Cartridges of the World, but I can tell you it doesn't look like one of the common ones. It's not a proportion I've ever seen. You might have something unusual there. Definitely a keeper.

 

[mlw67]

Thanks for looking.

I do remember digging a few weird cartridges over the years (even though I never kept them), but I don't ever remember digging one like that!?

I figure that dirt probably last saw daylight 100 to 150 years ago.  Most of the houses in that neighborhood are from 1870 to 1900 or so, with probably a sprinkling of even older ones in there.

 

[allen]

cool find and good luck in finding what type of casing it is. keep on digging...

 

[Southcacalaky]

Interesting find, HH Art...

 

[EDDE]

6.5 MM or "broomhandle" pistol round maybe ,it looks like its in MS condition....kidding

 

[mlw67]

Thanks everyone.

BTW you would not believe where I am posting this from. I am in my car driving down I-5! I bet that's a treasurenet first?? lol OK, actually I am *sitting* in my car on I-5, an accident has all 4 lanes closed down. Might as well surf, right? heh

LOL Dekalb!  Are you sure its not a proof??  Actually my buddy dropped it last night and chipped the lip of it, so I guess now its just XF.  lol  

 

[trk5capt]

The Primer Is Missing, Must Not Be Very Well Made, Maybe Foreign. trk5capt...

 

[mlw67]

OK I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say "broomhandle pistol" or even "primer". I'm guessing that "primer" is the round circle on the flat end of most bullets where the firing pin hits? If that is the case then it appears that the primer is recessed. Now I freely admit that I know nothing about this subject so I know that I may be way off base. Its just that it appears that the firing pin hit inside that recessed circle.

Here, I'll take/edit/post a pic:

 

[Rusted_Iron]

If I'm seeing the picture right, you've got a bottlenecked cartridge. The only ones I was able to find that were that stubby were the Morris and the Peabody cartridges, neither of which appears to be what you have. It may be a training round of some type that was designed to be fired in a barrel insert.

I was thinking European or British make also. You might want to contact a cartridge collectors' group. I know there are a few of them out there, including a couple in England.

Nice find. When you figure, of all the common type spent shell casings you could have dug up, you found something really weird, that's some odds!

 

[mlw67]

So I did go ahead and post this to a cartridge collector's club, and I found out that it is actually from the 1930s instead of older like I thought. Also I found out that it originally had moving parts, so that recessed area on the back is not 'recessed' per se, but in fact 'stuck' in the 'in' position. Also I found out that it was:

used in three different rounds for
the 37-mm Gun M1916 (a small WWI infantry support weapon, used as a
sub-caliber device during WWII) and one TP round for the 37-mm M3 anti-tank
weapon.


Its all greek to me.

 

[Rusted_Iron]

used in three different rounds for
the 37-mm Gun M1916 (a small WWI infantry support weapon, used as a
sub-caliber device during WWII) and one TP round for the 37-mm M3 anti-tank
weapon.

Aha, so it was an insert. A sub-caliber device is a smaller shell that is put in a special sleeve that fits a larger-diameter chamber. It lets you fire cheaper, less powerful training rounds.

I figured something like that, since I couldn't find it in my Cartridges of the World.