OMG! I found another Victorian British Officers Martingale Today!

[ANTIQUARIAN]

I still can't believe another one of these turned up at an 1840 farmhouse I was hunting today! One of my customers recently told me that his parents had moved to a retirement home and I could detect their property prior to it being sold. Well you don't need to tell me twice, so today I headed over there for a 3hr hunt and found yet another Victorian British Officers Martingale! When I cut the plug and saw the edge of the plate all I could think was, "nobody's going to believe me"! I found it out near the barn behind the farmhouse. The front and side yards of this site had few decent targets to dig. The yard to the east recently had the tall grass cut so swinging was difficult there. Most of the finds came at the back of the house, which as we all know is unusual. I was disappointed that I only found one penny dated 1940 and that was it! The soil here was very clean and loamy at the front and sides, so everything must be deep. I've taken pics with the martingale I found in August for comparison.

The badge I found today is thinner, 6mm shorter and about 3mm narrower. The condition isn't too bad, but I'm considering tumbling it to help improve its complexion, let me know your thoughts regarding to tumble or not.

Thanks for looking and best of luck,
Dave

PS. Oh yeah, I also found a small silver-plated pin and an interesting looking brass buckle!

 

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[Greylock]

Congrats on another incredible find. Amazing how good of condition they in. They look great all cleaned up too. Good job on recovery and preservation

 

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[Rick (Nova Scotia)]

Rick,

I was the one who suggested it might be a badge/plate rather than a martingale. I have several issues with your post. First of all, it comes across as completely arrogant. The suggestion that because YOU told him something he should no longer explore other ideas is laughable. While your opinion is no doubt appreciated it is simply that...your opinion. May I ask your credentials on military relics?

I suggested it could be a badge as the original post lacked a side profile of the piece. It appeared to be very thin brass which could have suggested a badge, hence the reason I followed up my statement with a question on the material. I was trying to acquire more information to make a more informed opinion. While I'm no authority on military relics I certainly have found many and have a lot of experience with them...as do others here. No one person knows it all. Most posters value the opinions of everyone and we sometimes have to take all of the information and suggesting provided and come up with a logical conclusion. From your post the suggestion seems to be that nothing in this thread really matters other than your opinions. I guess we should all stop posting and just wait until you've given us an ID and then put the thread to rest?

I don't have "links to evidence"...I have experience. I know that typically a very thin pressed brass item would not be a good candidate for something like a martingale which is usually made of thicker cast brass. So I made a suggestion and asked a followup question to try to determine this. Looking at the latest pics it would appear it is indeed likely horse brass. It is however the pictures that lead me to that conclusion...not the fact you found ID "evidence" in a Kijiji ad from some guy in Winnipeg.

These threads serve multiple purposes. They help identify items, educate all of us in some fashion, and create discussion. Pounding your chest and suggestion we end the discussion once and for all because you have spoken doesn't really contribute to any of those.

I should also mention the term "badge" or "plate" does not automatically associate an item with a hat. Ever heard of cartridge pouch plates? Cross belt plates? These were worn on a uniform/person...and they are typically large and heavy brass. Just throwing that out there based on other comments in the thread.

I think your laughable, going out of your way, and a fair effort just to dis me, asking about my credentials, here they are.

I did a lot of research on the first one he found, no one else was able to ID it, I did. I spent a good deal of my time searching through badges, and plates, (yes all kinds of them) and came up with nothing even close, That's how I know it isn't one.

So it came off as arrogant to you, I guess that is an opinion.

As far as "pounding your chest", I'm not, I not the mentioning all my experience.

 

[Gridwalker306]

That's very cool...

 

[HEAVYMETALNUT]

awesome Dave! nice compliment to your earlier find!

 

[JerV3]

Man that is nice congrats

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Dave that's a great find and now you have two, hopefully you will complete the hatrick Like Cru suggested a horse type, infact it's a Military horse cheek boss, one of two which went to the branch cheek steel bit. So if the bit was lost or broken they could be another at the site.

SS

Thank you so much for this information SS!
The piece that I found on Thursday is most certainly a Military horse cheek boss.
The martingale I found in August, being of a heavier construction and with some of the leather still attached is from the horse's chest.

Thanks again for the information,
Dave

Yes ! , " A Most Triumphant Recovery " , if I may say so .

Keep getting the good stuff Dave ......

CMDdawg

Thanks very much dawg!
Dave

Now that is awesome! Congrats! Hope you get to search some more before it's sold! You never know....

Thanks for your post BB!
The For Sale sign is scheduled to go up sometime next week, so I need to get back there ASAP!
Best of luck to you,
Dave

I always look forward to your posts, you seem to find some very interesting pieces, often...heh. Also, what a great looking piece of property there. I really hope you get the chance to get there again, before it sells.

Thanks very much Rod!
Dave

Rick,

I was the one who suggested it might be a badge/plate rather than a martingale. I have several issues with your post. First of all, it comes across as completely arrogant. The suggestion that because YOU told him something he should no longer explore other ideas is laughable. While your opinion is no doubt appreciated it is simply that...your opinion. May I ask your credentials on military relics?

I suggested it could be a badge as the original post lacked a side profile of the piece. It appeared to be very thin brass which could have suggested a badge, hence the reason I followed up my statement with a question on the material. I was trying to acquire more information to make a more informed opinion. While I'm no authority on military relics I certainly have found many and have a lot of experience with them...as do others here. No one person knows it all. Most posters value the opinions of everyone and we sometimes have to take all of the information and suggesting provided and come up with a logical conclusion. From your post the suggestion seems to be that nothing in this thread really matters other than your opinions. I guess we should all stop posting and just wait until you've given us an ID and then put the thread to rest?

I don't have "links to evidence"...I have experience. I know that typically a very thin pressed brass item would not be a good candidate for something like a martingale which is usually made of thicker cast brass. So I made a suggestion and asked a followup question to try to determine this. Looking at the latest pics it would appear it is indeed likely horse brass. It is however the pictures that lead me to that conclusion...not the fact you found ID "evidence" in a Kijiji ad from some guy in Winnipeg.

These threads serve multiple purposes. They help identify items, educate all of us in some fashion, and create discussion. Pounding your chest and suggestion we end the discussion once and for all because you have spoken doesn't really contribute to any of those.

I should also mention the term "badge" or "plate" does not automatically associate an item with a hat. Ever heard of cartridge pouch plates? Cross belt plates? These were worn on a uniform/person...and they are typically large and heavy brass. Just throwing that out there based on other comments in the thread.

Thanks very much for posting this W!
I'll PM you later,
Dave

 

[ColonialDude]

I think your laughable, going out of your way, and a fair effort just to dis me, asking about my credentials, here they are.

I did a lot of research on the first one he found, no one else was able to ID it, I did. I spent a good deal of my time searching through badges, and plates, (yes all kinds of them) and came up with nothing even close, That's how I know it isn't one.

So it came off as arrogant to you, I guess that is an opinion.

As far as "pounding your chest", I'm not, I not the mentioning all my experience.

I'm laughable? I replied to the thread and therefore I'm subscribed to it...so I get an email whenever a new post is made and was notified of your post which I read and replied to as it was clearly directed at the opinions of my original post. I'm not sure that equates to going out of my way to "dis" you. I simply think you're speaking a little too matter of fact when your credentials consist of some google searches and a link to a kijiji ad. There are people on this site who have years and years of experience (more than me) with military relics. To suggest they shouldn't bother commenting or giving opinions because you've got it all figured out is yes...arrogant and ignorant. You're clearly not an authority on military relics and I don't claim to be either. My issue is with you suggesting (rather ignorantly) that comments and opinions should cease because YOU have spoken. I think the real issue here is you feel you're not being given proper credit for ID'ing this item. Now we all know...you did it...well done.

I'm not interested in a pissing match on experience or credentials on someone else's post. I don't want to take away from a great find...although I fear that's already been done.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Absolutely an awesome group of finds.Congratulations

Thanks very much Rusty!
Dave

Great picture & ID, I felt confident it went on a horse but I would never have thought of that one.

This is exactly the ID that I needed Cru, again my sincere thanks go out to Silver Searcher!
Dave

Thanks for your input here, Colonial Dude. I agree that an open forum is best for fun and education. It seems like all opinions should be welcome for consideration and we can't get our feelings hurt just because someone does not agree or wholeheartedly accept our ideas. If we always hack on people's opinions, they will not bother to share ideas, and then what will we learn? I am not surprised more than one of the same type of horse tack came from an old barn area. I am so curious about the history of the area now. I hope the finder has some history to share about the location.

Thank you very much for your post and for your opinion Mrs. Walker!
I'm just sitting back here enjoying watching the fireworks!

Here's a bit of history on the area where the farmhouse is located.

"The village the farmhouse is found in is located 50kms northeast of Toronto and was settled in the 1820’s when a sawmill was built here. Around 1855 a gristmill and a cooperage were built and in 1866 a planning factory. Fires destroyed many of the villages booming industries and continually changed the face of town. A public hall, which had been erected in 1860, was also lost due to fire. A carriage factory and the Cooperage went in 1874. The woolen mill was the next to experience a fire several years later, but the brick walls remained standing. This was later followed by the destruction of the planning mill and the Gristmill. The planning mill was rebuilt on the site of the gristmill and subsequently burned in 1899. The gristmill machinery was rebuilt inside the fire-damaged brick walls of the old woolen mill."

Thanks again for your interest Mrs. W ... see the bottom of this post for a picture of the village in 1872.
Dave

very nice

Thank you Sir!

Congrats on another incredible find. Amazing how good of condition they in. They look great all cleaned up too. Good job on recovery and preservation

Thanks for your post Greylock!
All I did to both of these pieces was to wash them in saopy water with a soft bristle tooth brush.
I then lightly brushed them with a combination of mineral oil & beeswax ... I feel this helps to even out the patina.
Best of luck to you,
Dave

That's very cool...

Thanks buddy!

awesome Dave! nice compliment to your earlier find!

Thanks very much Dave!
Best of luck to you my friend!
Dave

Man that is nice congrats

Thank you very much Jer!
Dave

 

[Brian C.]

Lucky you are.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Lucky you are.

Thanks very much Brian, I like what you find as well!
Best of luck to you,
Dave

 

[charr45]

Awesome find

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Awesome find

Thanks buddy, best of luck to you!
Dave

 

[treblehunter]

That's great, so cool finding another one let alone just the one, congrats!

 

[Jyverb64]

Finding the first one was great but finding the second is awesome!

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

That's great, so cool finding another one let alone just the one, congrats!

Thanks very much buddy, I'm still in shock at finding the second one!
Dave

Finding the first one was great but finding the second is awesome!

Thanks very much for your post and your kind words J!
Best of luck to you,
Dave