One For Crispin

[hvacker]

Going through some papers I ran across another reason why it's so hard to know the bad guys.
When detectives were interviewing David Berkowitz, AKA Son Of Sam, they asked why he paid his parking ticket which led to his arrest.
Berkowitz said "Because I'm a law abiding citizen.
Talk about a disconnect.

 

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[dieselram94]

That is interesting, hopefully he chimes in soon.

 

[Crispin]

hvacker: I was wondering if anybody was ever going to bring him up. He is an extremely bizarre case. It is hard for me to comment specifically because: 1. I have never examined him. 2. I wasn't alive when he was arrested, so I have no idea what societal culture in NYC was like at that time. 3. There was so much press around it that it is difficult to ascertain what was truth and what was media slant. Here is a brief summary for those who do not know what hvacker is talking about.

The 'Son of Sam' was a serial killer, preferred method of gun, that roamed the streets of NYC for years. He shot more people then he killed (which is odd in and off itself that there was so many suvivors.) When he was arrested he told the police that his neighbor's dog was a demon and possessed him to kill all of those people. (or some garbage similiar to that.)

He used his arrest and notoriety to make large amounts of money. It led to the legislation of 'Son of Sam' laws that prohibit killers from doing this in the future. Later on, in the 90's he changed his story and said that he was a part of a satanic cult that was doing the killings. Police have some evidence to substantiate that. Very bizarre.

So, the question in everybodies mind is "Does the 'Son of Sam' have schizophrenia? If not, what type of mental illness does he have?
1. I can say beyond a reasonable doubt that he does not have schizophrenia. Schizophrenics commonly recieve 'command hallucinations' telling them to hurt themselves or others. Very rarely, will they do this. When they do act on them, 90% of the time they hurt themselves and the other 10% of the time they hurt the source of the voice. The hallmark symptoms of Schizophrenia are thought disorders and disorganization. Trained psychiatrists can easily see this on interview. 'Son of Sam' is not these. Violence from schizophrenics is haphazard, unpredictable, and random. 'Son of Sam' was devious and went years without getting caught. A schizophrenic who shot somebody would be found in hours.

2. Does he have some mental illness? Yes, absolutely, darned if I know what.

3. What might he have? High on the list is Antisocial PD. Right below it is factitious ds (basically he made the whole thing up.) Farther down is delusional disorder (very difficult to explain but unlikely.) Other then that I would just be making stuff up because I never met him.

Good question: Other serial murders that are extremelly bizarre are John Gacy, Jeffery Dohmer, zodiac killer, and the Hillside strangler.

Remember: The difference between these *******s and Sandy Hook is that they were repetitious murders over long periods of time. Usually targetting one person, sometimes two. This is a totally different mindset then what happened at Sandy Hook. These *******s can never be prevented. They killed with a variety of mechanims, including their bare hands. That is why legislation was never proposed in response to them. "Not even the same bleeping ballpark." (pulp fiction quote.)

 

[onfire]

How about Hinckley a 22 and a date with Foster “the greatest love offering in the history of the world” and was upset that Foster did not reciprocate his love.

with all the obsession with sport and Hollywood personalities how you going to stop this type of behavior?. all for 15 min. [SUP][/SUP]

 

[Crispin]

How about Hinckley a 22 and a date with Foster “the greatest love offering in the history of the world” and was upset that Foster did not reciprocate his love.

with all the obsession with sport and Hollywood personalities how you going to stop this type of behavior?. all for 15 min. [SUP][/SUP]

Onfire: It is well known and considered public knowledge that Hinckley has schizophrenia. Very sad case. He is currently living in St. Elizabeth's in DC. I studied for four years under one of the psychiatrists that treated him. This is a good example of how quickly they get caught...within minutes I believe.

Hinckley is an anomaly. A young, high functioning schizophrenic. I have seen many patients that have delusions and intent to kill the president (not just the current one, any one.) This is why the president and his family need so much protection. Most of these patients are harmless. The ones who are not...well, lets just say violation of BoR. Again, very, very sad case.

PLEASE remember: these people are infamous for a reason. They do NOT represent mental health on a whole. This is why psychiatrists do not want to be involved in the gun debate. They already do a lot to protect and serve.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Onfire: It is well known and considered public knowledge that Hinckley has schizophrenia. Very sad case. He is currently living in St. Elizabeth's in DC. I studied for four years under one of the psychiatrists that treated him. This is a good example of how quickly they get caught...within minutes I believe.

Hinckley is an anomaly. A young, high functioning schizophrenic. I have seen many patients that have delusions and intent to kill the president (not just the current one, any one.) This is why the president and his family need so much protection. Most of these patients are harmless. The ones who are not...well, lets just say violation of BoR. Again, very, very sad case.

PLEASE remember: these people are infamous for a reason. They do NOT represent mental health on a whole. This is why psychiatrists do not want to be involved in the gun debate. They already do a lot to protect and serve.

And Jodi has just revealed... she is GAY! DANG!

 

[hvacker]

Hey Crispin, I've got another live one. You mentioned John Wayne Gacy. For those that don't know, Gacy murdered a bunch of boys and buried them in his crawlspace. He lived just a short hop from my home when I lived in Ill. After he was sent to prison the town bulldozed his house.
About that time I was taking a print making class at college and another student told me she and a friend went to where Gacy's house was and got a box of dirt from where the crawlspace was. They sent the dirt to the film maker John Waters (Pink Flamingos, Hairspray) I know it's true because a time later, Waters was on a late night show and was asked what's the oddest thing anyone sent him. He answered with the box of dirt and then looked in to the camera and said "See you in Hell"
I imagine the girls did it because they craved attention. Just curious the spin offs that these crimes create.
An odd side note. As bizarre as this girl acted and dressed in class, it was strange how conservative her art work was. Art can be a powerful diagnosis tool me thinks.

 

[Crispin]

hvacker: I'm not really sure what to say about that one. Very odd, indeed. I was trying to put a Freudian spin on it but I fell short there as well.

Crisp

 

[Dave44]

Hello Crispin!
I have a question on a hypothesis I am working on. How likely is it that a person, especially a child, subjected to emotional turmoil day in and day out would become emotionally stunted and may even become violent? Isn't there some studies that have been done on this?

Thank you
Dave

 

[Rebel - KGC]

hvacker: I'm not really sure what to say about that one. Very odd, indeed. I was trying to put a Freudian spin on it but I fell short there as well.

Crisp

"Art" has been used to help kids describe traumatic events; their drawings, paintings, etc. CAN be used to expose "crimes" & unresolved "issues" that the kids can not "talk about"; SAME with music. NOT sure why ppl would want "artifacts" of crime, tho. PROBABLY... BEYOND Freud.

 

[Crispin]

Hello Crispin!
I have a question on a hypothesis I am working on. How likely is it that a person, especially a child, subjected to emotional turmoil day in and day out would become emotionally stunted and may even become violent? Isn't there some studies that have been done on this?

Thank you
Dave

Dave: That is a good question, and one that has been studied extensively. However, it is a very sensitive topic to discuss due to the very nature of children being abused. Here are some short answers:
1. It depends on the severity and frequency of the violence. A child who is exposed to ritualistic, severe violence (which almost always includes sexual abuse) will never be able to develop an intact ego. As such, they never mature out of basic Eriksonian stages. This does not lead to violence; instead, it leads to very poor sense of self and idenity. This typically manifests in splitting and self injurious behavior. Very, very sad.

2. Less then one percent of men who have been sexually abused as children will go on to be sexually abused.
-97% of men who sexually abuse children have been sexually abused themselves! Spend some time thinking about this, shocking!
-women do not have these patterns.

3. Children model behavior after their parents. If parents believe in 'sparing the rod and spoiling the child' they will most likely have children who treat their children the same way.
-there are plenty of children in this country who evolve beyond this.

If you have anymore specific questions I might be able to provide a better answer. However, I have to be very delicate on this topic. My first goal is to "Do no harm." I would not want anything I say to be misinterpretated or cause harm.

Crispin

 

[Dave44]

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer. My question arises from an incident this weekend. I was watching my niece play with her toys, she is 5 recently. As a nod to my in-laws they do not let them watch alot of TV but allow them cartoons and such.
Anyway a commercial came on, I am sure you have seen it, dogs,cats horses that have been abused asking humans why they are not fed, why they are beaten, etc.

My niece was really distraught. I told her that is not the normal way people treat animals, and the show makes no sense.
IMO kids are not capable of distinguishing which videos are trying to illicit an emotional reaction from the videos designed to control you in any other way.
You see this sort of thing day in and day out, we are bombarded with the very best psy op warfare mankind has ever faced. I believe we are causing a disconnected psyche in generations of people, not just my nieces.

Again, Thank you so much for your input!!!
Dave

 

[Crispin]

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer. My question arises from an incident this weekend. I was watching my niece play with her toys, she is 5 recently. As a nod to my in-laws they do not let them watch alot of TV but allow them cartoons and such.
Anyway a commercial came on, I am sure you have seen it, dogs,cats horses that have been abused asking humans why they are not fed, why they are beaten, etc.

My niece was really distraught. I told her that is not the normal way people treat animals, and the show makes no sense.
IMO kids are not capable of distinguishing which videos are trying to illicit an emotional reaction from the videos designed to control you in any other way.
You see this sort of thing day in and day out, we are bombarded with the very best psy op warfare mankind has ever faced. I believe we are causing a disconnected psyche in generations of people, not just my nieces.

Again, Thank you so much for your input!!!
Dave

Dave: Your niece has not developed an intact ego, yet. But, she will. This is exactly why we must be careful in exposing children to sex and violence at a young age. I don't think it is psy op warfare directed an any individual but rather a byproduct of increased technology in society.

Your niece shows signs of empathy. She was able to share the pain of the animals. This is a very good sign for her and shows she has been brought up in a loving environment. I am saddened that she had to experience this but you handled it very well, your response will help her to develop into a moral being.

We see signs of Antisocial PD in children but we call it Conduct disorder. Some of these signs include torturing animals or setting things on fire. I've know of a ten year old who has poured gasoline on a puppy and lit the match himself. These are the future 'Son of Sam's, Clown Killers, and Hillside stranglers. The media does not cause these people to be like this. There is no amount of brainwashing in the world that would ever let your 5y.o. niece think that was a good thing. Most of us are born good, through our own deeds do we take different paths.

There is great evil in this world, but there are also great men and women to combat them.

You would be surprised what kids can pick up on...

Crispin

 

[Dave44]

Again, Thank you,
To tax your knowledge again, she expresses empathy, most children do.

But how would the effects of thousands of these videos during their formative life cause them to react? Like I said before, they are not ready for the assault on their well intentioned empathy, they may not continue to respond emphatically after a lifetime of this stimulus.

At least not as they should react to events in their life, or the repercussions of actions taken by themselves or others.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in the censorship crowd. But I believe most people do not know they are being manipulated.

Thank you Crispin. I appreciate your honesty and your caution.
Dave

 

[Crispin]

Dave: Simulated violence in children is not a new thing. Compare it to the gladiators of Spartacus' time, the Uncle Tom's of 19th century america, public beheadings in 16th century france, or hangings in the Wild West. In some ways, our children are exposed to less violence.

The other day one of my nephew's friend met my puppy (in the avatar.) He is about three years old and was playing with a toy gun. He was not familiar with dogs and a little put off by her friendliness. He followed her around the room yelling "bad dog, bad dog" and shooting the gun. I didn't have to say a word...his parents were on him immediately and scolded him. Children have been playing cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, and other simulations of violence for many years. Granted it is a lot more high tech now. What a children is exposed to is not as important as how his/her parents and role models respond to it. Just like you did with your niece.

I am not avoiding your question about children being exposed to a lifetime of violent videos...I just don't know the answer. I don't think anybody does.

When it comes to children there are two predominant theories in psychology I find of the utmost importance:

1. "Unconditional, positive regard." Carl Rodgers, from Humanism. Simply put, it means never tell a child they are bad. Tell the child their actions were bad, tell them they did a bad thing, but never tell them they are bad. Always give them unconditional love.

2. "Good enough mothering." Dr. Winnicot, pediatrician. Simply put, no mother/father is a perfect match for any baby/child. However, as long as the match is 'good enough' the child will develop into a normal, moral human being.

Empathy is boundless, it can never be undone, it can only be burned out...Bill can explain this if we are lucky enough for him to grace us with an explanation.

I'm done for the night. My emotive neurons are drained. I need sleep to recharge.

God bless,

Crispin

 

[Dave44]

Deserved rest for you, My point was precisely this. With enough stimuli to emotions their response could possibly burn out. I am not actually talking about Video games, most children know and/or learn about "pretend". I am talking about public service announcements, commercials portrayed as documentaries and even government trying to get an emotional response on every subject, while disregarding logical or linear thought. I always felt there should be a balance.

The cruelties or harsh sentences of the past did not happen day in and day out, well maybe around the French revolution. So the lesson was that there was a stiff punishment for being a bad guy.

You don't have to respond, I know you are probably tired of the subject. But I am working on my hypothesis nonetheless.

I am glad to get to know you!

 

[Crispin]

Bump, Dave, lets pick up the conversation about empathy...

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

(" The hallmark symptoms of Schizophrenia are thought disorders and disorganization".
Crispin, your quote there scared me a little. Is having too many thoughts at once, considered a "thought disorder"? Have you ever worked with small children who tell you, they can't turn their brains off?
Is organized chaos, ok? I mean, something that may look disorganized to another, may be organized(to a degree), by the one who has organized. I know there are many offshoots and extremes in this also, just set it on the back burner or in the bottom file, for now.)


I appreciate these types convo's. This fella is doing some remarkable work at Baylor, atm, David Eagleman Ph.d.
His article/paper on the Bell Tower shooter, also shows empathy from one, who KNEW something was not right within himself, but then had no (or seemed to have no) free will, to employ empathy, towards those he was shooting at.

http://www.eaglemanlab.net/papers/Eagleman Atlantic The Brain on Trial.pdf

I am a proponent for proper perception. Being taught that; "perception is the lamp of earthly life". I have come to believe folks perceive the world around them in one of three ways; with anger, with fear, or with love(positive perception).
If you have the mindset, to seek out the good and positive from your perceived environment, and look for the good, before acknowledging the negatives, then you are seeing and finding the good and better things of life. You develop an open mind to grow in proper positive directions.
One that views their environment with fear, can develop avoidance issues, along with other ranges of personality disorders. This is usually a closed stunted mind.
One that has anger for their perceived enviroment, may attempt to seek out to destroy that, which they do not like. This is also a closed mind.
Fear and anger will NOT cancel each other out and BOTH perpetuate the other.
Love(positive perception), on the other hand, can cancel BOTH anger and fear.

No matter what comes your way, or what your environment may be, I was taught that if we practice seeing the good of the world, that it would actually CHANGE our brains for the better. This was taught to me 40 or more yrs ago, before brain plasticity was even seriously considered by anyone, other than maybe Luria.

Imho, the only reason one would do the terrible horrible things, these killers have done, is lack of love(positive perception).
The have lost or never had love(positive perception) for either themselves or those around them. My teacher was also a proponent for prisoner rehabilitation, through showing that prisoner how to restore love and positive perceptions for himself, and the world around hm.

I wonder if we can teach our young today, better perceptions for their worlds, in SPITE of all the media hype and overflow of information(not always the best info either), they are bombarded with daily.

 

[Dave44]

Well,, My thoughts change all of the time with observations, And on the other thread Reb? talked about the burnout from stimulus?

But this thread causes a small mess because it splits the subject in 2, when the other one is really my concern at this time.

Can we, as time allows visit here, as we discuss the topic there? Thanks

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

Well,, My thoughts change all of the time with observations, And on the other thread Reb? talked about the burnout from stimulus?
But this thread causes a small mess because it splits the subject in 2, when the other one is really my concern at this time.
Can we, as time allows visit here, as we discuss the topic there? Thanks

Hey Dave, I do have a problem at times, keeping threads and thoughts on track. I do appreciate, when someone gently nudges or directs me, back on track.

Please do expound on what your main concern is, atm(here or on the other thread). Sympathy burnout? Emotional fatigue?
I'll try to keep up, and my intention is not to cause confusion. You can even tell me to butt out, too, LOL!
Hope all have a good day, and find the treasures and answers, you seek.