Outlaw finding deep pull tabs - that wont disc out?

[Hobojo]

Is it with the RSD coil?

 

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[Hihosilver]

Is it with the RSD coil?

No, the 8" doughnut coil.

 

[Hihosilver]

So... I greatly appreciate all the thoughts and recommendations about the Outlaw and pull tabs. I was reading "Mastering the Tesoro Tejon and Vaquero" and it made me realize as he was discussing the "one way signal" that was what I was getting with those deep tabs. Not sure it was for both that I dug but I am certain I was getting it for the one deep beaver tail I dug.

I really am interested in learning more of those tips regarding a good round signal vs the broken, iffy and "one way signals. Perhaps over time I will be able to tell the difference in just the sound, even if it hits strong in all directions. I have been using a pair of Grey Ghosts with the Golden, and as I only have these, on the Outlaw the one time I took it out. Wondering if the killer bees would be a big enough difference to spring for them for the Outlaw?

 

[tabman]

So... I greatly appreciate all the thoughts and recommendations about the Outlaw and pull tabs. I was reading "Mastering the Tesoro Tejon and Vaquero" and it made me realize as he was discussing the "one way signal" that was what I was getting with those deep tabs. Not sure it was for both that I dug but I am certain I was getting it for the one deep beaver tail I dug.

I really am interested in learning more of those tips regarding a good round signal vs the broken, iffy and "one way signals. Perhaps over time I will be able to tell the difference in just the sound, even if it hits strong in all directions. I have been using a pair of Grey Ghosts with the Golden, and as I only have these, on the Outlaw the one time I took it out. Wondering if the killer bees would be a big enough difference to spring for them for the Outlaw?

It never hurts to a spare set of headphones. I use Killer B Wasp headphones and If I'm going detecting I won't leave home without them.

tabman

 

[Hobojo]

Killer's are better than the Grey Ghost, only the single cup one's for me. Stingers. Got spoked one time when someone tapped on my shoulder. Never heard them coming and was so focused on my target I didn't see them. Freaked me out big time.

 

[Hihosilver]

Well I was able to get out for a couple of hours with the Outlaw yesterday. Went to an old school yard where I have found both silver and gold, but mostly clad. I was digging every clean "round" signal as well as a few iffy ones. Was a little more careful to GB neutral, if not a little positive this time and turned the sensitivity down to about 7. I found no silver, but I did get a few deeper wheaties, and about $2 in clad. I was really taking my time on each hit, trying to get a feel for what kind of sound I was getting before I dug. I think the advise on the deeper pull tabs worked, as I was not fooled by the one or two beavers I dug, they disced out where one would expect... So thank you to Terry and all for that tip, it seemed to work.

One thing for sure, the coin hit is nice and strong, round, clean on this Outlaw. Almost ALL the junk I dug, except for the round and square pull tabs, came in clipped, broken up a bit or just not clean all around. My disc was set at foil for most of the day, until about the last half hour when I decided I just wanted to have some fun and dig only the quarters... So I turned the disc up. .

Hunting without the four tone ID of the Golden IS different, and it is going to take some time for me to get used to, but so far I am enjoying it. I did occasionally thumb the disc nob, especially on the good clean signals to try and get an idea if I was over a pull tab, but I dug all of these in case there was a class ring or something along those lines under the coil.

I have had NO ISSUES with the red button. In fact, I kind of like it. After getting a good signal in disc, it is nothing to press the button all the way down into motion all metal... It really helps give a sense of how deep the signal is (from the difference in how the two modes hit) as well as size. Each time after digging, I just raise the coil, hit the button to retune and we're off...

All of this was with the 8" round doughnut coil, going to try the 11 x 8 next outing.

 

[Olegrumpy]

The shift up phenomenon is even more noticeable with the Golden µMAX. Hunting in Europe, all our good euro coins fall in the mediumlow tone-range; When deep (10"+), they will signal themselves with a faint, quiet HIGH tone, instead of medium low.

You should encounter the same situation with deep copper cents, wheats, or other coins and heavy (class) rings (mostly 10K) that normally signal in the medium low range of the golden µmax, but you won't notice it with the Outlaw, because of the single tone.

By the way, can you give a short comment on the Outlaw vs the Golden ? Just out of curiosity...We can get the Outlaw here, but they are thin on the ground, I was lucky to find a nearly new Golden over here (v2).

Cheers

Grumpy

 

[Hihosilver]

The shift up phenomenon is even more noticeable with the Golden µMAX. Hunting in Europe, all our good euro coins fall in the mediumlow tone-range; When deep (10"+), they will signal themselves with a faint, quiet HIGH tone, instead of medium low.

You should encounter the same situation with deep copper cents, wheats, or other coins and heavy (class) rings (mostly 10K) that normally signal in the medium low range of the golden µmax, but you won't notice it with the Outlaw, because of the single tone.

By the way, can you give a short comment on the Outlaw vs the Golden ? Just out of curiosity...We can get the Outlaw here, but they are thin on the ground, I was lucky to find a nearly new Golden over here (v2).

Cheers

Grumpy

Grumpy,

The Golden I own is the original tone configuration, which keeps the tones in their proper conductive order, i.e., zinc coins hit on the upper middle tone, nickels on the lower middle tone. I sent mine into the factory to be calibrated to the 7" widescan coil, but the 6" concentric works very well without any adjustment to the GB pot inside.

I did have the "shift up phenomenon" occur on my Golden as well, especially with the deeper beaver tail type pull tabs. This would occur most especially with the stock 9x8 OOR coil, which I don't really care for. The shift up thing does not occur as often with the widescan coil however, at least that has been my experience.

Regarding the Outlaw, I am still getting used to hunting with just one tone, so not sure I could give a fair comparison between the two detectors... Other than to say I like them both, each has its own strength for the given hunting situation. For the newer parks where tabs are going to be plentiful, as well as clad, with the possibility of some gold jewelry, I think the Golden will be my choice of weapon. For sports fields and older home sites, I will prefer the Outlaw. But, I want to use the Outlaw as much as possible for the next few months so that I can learn its language, plus, I do want to develop the skill of metal detecting with the just the single tone. So far, with just the two outings I have had, I can see that I need to learn to "trust" the discriminator in that, apart from the newer round and square type pull tabs (the ones designed to open and stay attached to the can, but people break off anyways) most of the junk I have dug sounded of with a broken, chirpy or clipped sound, not nice and solid and round like it hits on a coin.

Certainly, with its GB adjustability, the Outlaw is deeper, although I have not found anything super deep yet. I did get a nice tone on a 5" wheat back penny this past Sunday. The signal was strong enough that I think there was still a good inch or two of detection capability. Withe the Golden, I recently noticed that fresh batteries will make a big difference on depth, at least an inch or two.

At this point, I can't really offer too much more by way of comparison, not until I get more time out with the Outlaw.

 

[Hobojo]

The Outlaw should get more respect than it does. Hey, after all it IS Tesorso's newest machine.

 

[Hihosilver]

The Outlaw should get more respect than it does. Hey, after all it IS Tesorso's newest machine.

I agree. Don't quite understand the lack of attention regarding the Outlaw. So far, I feel that it is a nice stable machine with a great discriminator. The two all-metal modes are nice as well. But Everyone seems to be after monster depth, and while the Outlaw doesn't go as deep as the Tejon or the Vaquero (as people are saying), so far I can't complain, not sure I want to be digging 9/10 inches in a park or old house anyways. Can you imagine going 10" inches in the middle of a soccer field?

With all of the 5pin coil choices, there are so many options for the Outlaw. I just bought a 10.5 concentric/doughnut coil... Have not used it on the field yet but it is air testing 9" on a dime and about 12" on a quarter. I realize that this coil has it's limited uses because it will have "masking" issues with its very large detection feild, but still... Would one really need much more than that? And if you did, why then the Tejon would fit the bill.

 

[Hobojo]

Yep I totally get it, I use both Minelabs and Tesoro products , but by far my favorite detector is my very trusty Outlaw. I think I just feel better connected to it. It has a lazer like pin-point ability that I love. My Xterra is all ways off by a few inches. What the Outlaw does it does well. So fast and acurate; easy to swing and able to cherry pick .25's. Its like playing a slot machine for free.

 

[Olegrumpy]

Thank you, Hihosilver, for taking the time to answer my "overseas" question !

I had an 8" fixed coil Compadre years ago (we had them here in Europe before the U.S.), and was thinking of getting me another one, this time with interchangeable coils option. It's a five pinner also. But I might want to try the Outlaw before.

The Compadre was excellent in dry sand, I found really small gold jewelry with it.

But I am partial : I love the (original) µMAX concept. I just love the Golden, I'm better at interpreting audio signals than digital displays (but they're sometimes very useful). The Golden is not limited to four tones, it has shades of discimination that improve the accuracy of the user's hearing, making it a great C&J unit.

Cheers

 

[Hihosilver]

Thank you, Hihosilver, for taking the time to answer my "overseas" question !

I had an 8" fixed coil Compadre years ago (we had them here in Europe before the U.S.), and was thinking of getting me another one, this time with interchangeable coils option. It's a five pinner also. But I might want to try the Outlaw before.

The Compadre was excellent in dry sand, I found really small gold jewelry with it.

But I am partial : I love the (original) µMAX concept. I just love the Golden, I'm better at interpreting audio signals than digital displays (but they're sometimes very useful). The Golden is not limited to four tones, it has shades of discimination that improve the accuracy of the user's hearing, making it a great C&J unit.
S
Cheers

Grumpy,

Totally agree with you about the micro max design. Ultimately it was why I went with the Outlaw over the Vaquero. You are right about the Golden, it is a very special machine and it is really too bad that Tesoro discontinued it. I have had absolutely no issues with mine. This winter, with the snow on the ground and nothing to do detector-wise, I started playing with the Golden and its notch width/tone adjustment feature, experimenting with my collection of various pull tabs. I figured out how to set her up in such a way as to have the Golden sound off with the upper middle tone on every type of pull tabs I own and yet still hit nickels and all of my smaller gold rings (including my own wedding band) with the lower middle tone. Even the philigree 14ct. Gold cross I found will hit cleanly with the lower middle tone. The only thing I cannot ID separately is those smaller foil sport drink caps.

So I am really looking forward to going out and giving this new set up a try... Hopefully I can find a few smaller gold rings this summer.

About the Golden, a lot of people on the forums don't seem to like them all that much. It is true, they are not very deep, mine will hit a dime at 5, maybe 6 inches with fresh batteries, but the lower conductors hit hard on this machine, I dug a pull tab once at 8". People don't like the tones, they say they are too close or whatever, but you are right about there being more than 4 tones, and depending what you are looking for, you can make adjustments to hear what you want, how you want it. I will never sell mine, and as I bought it new, I won't have to worry about breaking it with the lifetime warranty.

I hope Tesoro finds a way to bring this machine back, perhaps with Manual GB... I wish you all the luck this summer with yours.

 

[Phantasman]

So took the Outlaw out today to a park, this was my first time using with the new machine. Very trashy park! So after awhile, decided to raise the disc and just look for coins. Well, even with the disc past zinc, I was still getting deep pull tabs, the older beaver tail type. Using the 8" concentric. What is funny is that they easily disc out in an air test.

The Golden umax does the same thing with the concentric coil. Not so much with the DD.

Is this typical?

Pull tabs are the chameleon's of many hits in the gold range. A nickel doesn't change shape. Pull Tabs can shape themselves into so many different conductivity readings. Over time, I found it was better to ID a pulltab rather than ID a good target, since pull tabs outnumber the good stuff. It's better to ID it a pull tab and be wrong, than to Id it a target and be wrong. With Tesoro's, the disc is as iffy as the signal (in many cases). The reason for a "beep and dig" analogy. Even displayed conductivity numbers on an LCD isn't a lot better, it tends to be a bit more accurate than a thumb control.

 

[walnut]

Pull tabs are the chameleon's of many hits in the gold range. A nickel doesn't change shape. Pull Tabs can shape themselves into so many different conductivity readings. Over time, I found it was better to ID a pulltab rather than ID a good target, since pull tabs outnumber the good stuff. It's better to ID it a pull tab and be wrong, than to Id it a target and be wrong. With Tesoro's, the disc is as iffy as the signal (in many cases). The reason for a "beep and dig" analogy. Even displayed conductivity numbers on an LCD isn't a lot better, it tends to be a bit more accurate than a thumb control.

So, are Golden Umax type tab notches a bad idea? Do pulltabs so perfectly overlap over gold that notching is going to cost you gold?

 

[Phantasman]

So, are Golden Umax type tab notches a bad idea? Do pulltabs so perfectly overlap over gold that notching is going to cost you gold?

I use a TID detector, so I never notch. I do disc out iron being a coin and jewelry hunter. In the gold range (20-59), I want to see and hear everything. Most of the time I can ID a pull tab. I could set my notch width to 4 and eliminate most perfect tabs. But notching affects depth. So I'd rather hear and ID it and move on. I dig most other signals in the gold range and good silver hits (that don't appear larger than a coin when I switch to AM mode). Doing that has almost eliminated cans from my digs. The LRP has a great one touch AM mode that gives me ID while I scan the size.

I never used a Golden. But I would think it would be hard to set the notch without a guide to tell you it's exact width like the LRP does.

If all I wanted was coins, I would just set mine to coin mode which only detects nickels and silver and auto notches everything else. But Jewelry hides many places in the conductivity range, and I'd miss a lot.