Permission vs no problem anyway

[danloop]

All the permission threads reminded me of the time I asked police officer if it was ok to detect in the city park. Being out of state, I figured it was better to ask. City worker overheard the conversation and offered to show me a few spots to go. Found a few coins and had a good time BS'ing.

 

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[TheSleeper]

Kemper, according to me, "They must refrain from stating their beliefs or opinions to keep the peace amongst what 10k 20k members here."

Th'r has even hinted about this, no he cannot come right out and state his feelings or beliefs, nor can jeff in pa nor any of the other mods, to do so would show favoritism and they can't do that. Their job is to keep the peace amongst all the members of this forum, their position is peace keepers.

 

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[TheSleeper]

If that were the only two choices I could see where you are coming from. Another choice is looking up the laws when necessary. Another choice is detecting their city park without asking rather than taking a chance on someone's opinion that would not know what (as in how ) they are asking to do. There are many choices depending on what property a person is wanting to hunt. The simple way is not always the best way.

But kemper you are advocating just that, taking the simple way out. So many of your post pertain to just that, don't ask, just do it.

That's what I am trying to get across to you guy, you have been in this hobby for awhile, you know what's right, what's wrong and what should be changed. These new members do not, hence they read our post and take it as the gospel and then get in trouble.

Its our duty to the hobby to try and protect them, yes it is also our duty to the hobby to protect our rights, to correct the misunderstanding the public holds about us, to prove to them that we do not leave a field/ park looking like a battleground full of divits.

It is our duty to change the perception the public has about us, but more importantly it is our duty to protect the new hunters!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Many times I agree with what is posted and many times I agree with what is deleted but I or another mod have to delete because it violates our rules, my personal opinion comes last.--Treasure_Hunter
We will never know what your personal opinion is,if in fact you ever post one, according to the above. I don't know if the above is your personal opinion or not.

I post my personal opinion all the time in politics section and I post it here if it is with in the rules, I don't post it when it violates the rules.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

These new members do not, hence they read our post and take it as the gospel and then get in trouble.--TheSleeper Accusatory and unfounded. Show me.
But kemper you are advocating just that, taking the simple way out. So many of your post pertain to just that, don't ask, just do it. --TheSleeper Not true. Show me. I am not advocating the simple way out but rather the proper way,in my opinion, and each site can be different. That is not always simple. sometimes it is. I hope you are not talking about what is clearly defined as "private" property because I always think a person should have permission to hunt that. That may not be as simple as "can I " either.
It is our duty to change the perception the public has about us, but more importantly it is our duty to protect the new hunters! --TheSleeper It is not my duty to change public perception,although I try not to add any negativity to it. Those that think that it is their job often bow down to those that don't understand the hobby in an attempt to do so. It is not my duty to protect the new hunter but I do encourage them to learn how to protect themselves without sacrificing their opportunities to hunt in exchange for someone's blessing.

Kemper we have a quote button, I believe sleeper asked you to post his whole post not just a line out of context...

Use the quote function so we can tell what the other person said, if you want to stress a point or line in their quote then retype it in quotes below the actual quote function..

 

[lookindown]

Kemper, according to me, "They must refrain from stating their beliefs or opinions to keep the peace amongst what 10k 20k members here."

Th'r has even hinted about this, no he cannot come right out and state his feelings or beliefs, nor can jeff in pa nor any of the other mods, to do so would show favoritism and they can't do that. Their job is to keep the peace amongst all the members of this forum, their position is peace keepers.

The mods post their personal opinions just like everyone else...what are you talking about?...the mods do a great job of keeping every one civil on on here, why wouldn't they be able to post their opinions?

 

[lookindown]

Kemper, don't partially quote me just to get a jab in.

It has been stated in the past, I have even stated it, personally I don't care where you hunt, whether you break the law or ignore the law or refuse to even check what the law states. What is important is the fact TOO many new hunters come to this forum to learn about treasure hunting, they have no ideas about it at first, then they read comments made, go out and detect following those comments and get in trouble.


This isn't about me, nor is it about you, it is about and for the new hunters so that they do not get in trouble.

I personally have NO quarrel with you, nor anyone else, I fully realize how you feel. You cannot detect for as many years as I have and not feel it. BUT the most important aspect of this forum is the new hunters, they are the future of this hobby and it is "our" duty to make sure they do not start out by getting in trouble with the law or ethics.

New hunters going around everywhere and asking permission can be very detrimental to the hobby...we aren't encouraging them to break the law, we are trying to keep them from getting places closed to detecting...we don't need a disclaimer in our signatures...well maybe we should have something saying use common sense.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I'll take that as opinion and not a violation of rule. If was easy to see what the other person said as I referenced their name after each quote. If a person makes a post that involves 4 full screens I would have to pull a lot down to reply to one line. I try to not take a line out of context and I did not here. I will consider your opinion.

You don't have to quote the whole post to use the quote function.....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...., they have no ideas about it at first, then they read comments made, go out and detect following those comments and get in trouble.....

Sleeper, we all feel the same way about "those who left craters" in the park. And no doubt, there's probably been some laws that were created because of that. And no doubt, even though we don't like it, nor were responsible for "those craters", yet we now have to follow a law. All that , that you've said so far, is a given.

But re.: the quote above from you. Not sure what advice you're referring to, but if they followed my advice, they wouldn't get into any trouble. Because I say to look up the laws for oneself. How much more law-abiding can a person be than that ? So I'm not sure which person's posts you're referring to there, that is poised to get someone in trouble.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... a public works worker pulled-up and said "we usually don't let people detect here", so I struck up a conversation with him and offered to show him how I recover artifacts. He was amazed by the lack of dirt and damage (already dug 20 plugs) to the surrounding area. He said "oh, go ahead since you are here anyway"......,

Is his statement "we usually don't let people" a written rule ? Or just a policy ?, but no matter which it is: Oddly, this post (your story here) is actually in favor of a notion to "just go". Because if, let's say, you'd gone into city hall asking him or someone "can I metal detect?", then ...... based on what he's saying now (that they don't let people), then it seems to me your answer would have been "no". However, you just went, and ....... no problems.

Yes I realize it's not all that "cut & dried", (because your story doesn't say whether there was an actual real rule or not), and I realize there's more layers of the onion involved. But just pointing out that your story illustrates that if this very same person had been the one you'd asked "can I?" to, it seems to me (based on the facts of the story), he'd have been inclined to have said "no". Yet the story doesn't end up like that. But as I say, I realize there's various factors involved.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....So many of your post pertain to just that, don't ask, just do it....

Well, not the full scoop. You're right that Kemper and others are saying "don't ask". But they also complete the statement by saying "look up the rules/laws for oneself".

Thus taken in it's entirety, is not a stance poised to get any newbies in trouble. Yes I realize there's other layers to the onion than this, but also just saying: don't quote only the first half of the stance (which ... yes, if that's all anyone did, could bring trouble).

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You don't have to quote the whole post to use the quote function.....

Right. To keep the reading sequences in right order, and to make it clear what's a quote from another and who said it, here's how you do it:

You use the "reply with quote" option. Then by using the back-space and delete key, you can hone in on *just* the part of the quote you want to address. But be sure by narrowing down that person's quote to just the single sentence you're addressing, that you don't take him out of of context

 

[Higgy]

I would expect authority to be reasonable. Just my opinion.

I'm with you on this, Kemp. If its public, I just go unless there are specific signage. If an official wants to shoo me off, I politely go and leave with yes sirs, no ma'ams, and the like. Unless its designated as historic property, then I say go for it. Private land is a whole different ballgame, obviously. The grey area is church grounds. I ask just to be safe.

 

[TheSleeper]

LOL wow my post have been chopped /cut and placed so much out of context that I can't even tell what the hexx I was trying to say.........

I do not like my words turned or twisted, so I will refrain from posting in this thread anymore.

 

[Escape]

Maybe the reason that new hunters ask for permission is because it is prohibited in a number of places for reasons all ready given. If you didn't know it already, don't go to central park on a sunny afternoon and start swinging your detector. They will be on you before you dig your first plug. And you won't see a sign anywhere prohibiting it.

 

[Escape]

Yeah just go ask and be told no. Then you'll feel better.

Better then paying a hefty fine, which they have been doing. To each his own.

 

[lookindown]

Better then paying a hefty fine, which they have been doing. To each his own.

Yeah, they probably confiscated their detectors, vehicle, underwear and banned them from the state too.

 

[Sluice Willis]

The reason places become off limits is because careless people feel entitled to detect anywhere they wish.

Nobody gets mad because somebody asked permission, they get mad when some idiot starts digging up their grass. What do you think happens when they run somebody off? That is not the end of it, they call their boss, then it's brought to the attention of those who regulate these parks. Digging has and will always be the number one problem people have with our hobby. I don't care how careful and gentle you are, there is always two idiots behind you that are not and leave a mess behind. It's time to stop preaching the evils of asking permission, if after ten pages you haven't convinced a soul, your never gonna! It's time to start preaching respect and responsibility! Every time somebody gets run off it makes all of us look bad.

I have never dug a hole while playing frisbee, playing football, riding a bike or any other hobby other than metal detecting. Has there ever been one instance of a frisbee player leaving craters behind? How many football players dig holes and leave them? Anytime there is a regulation put in place it's because of sloppy detectorists or archies trying to protect history. Those two are the cause, not somebody who wants to be sure they are not detecting an area that is off limits. The OP has been ridiculed and belittled for six pages for asking permission. Did they tell him no? Did they rush to put up signs? Did they later declare it off limits? Do me a favor, go anywhere detecting is off limits and ask them why that is. 90% of the time it's because sloppy detectorists, how about instead of twenty threads on permission, we have a few on responsible digging. How many know how to cut a plug so it doesn't kill the grass? How many people use a small dropcloth for the dirt?

The clash over Central Park stems from a dispute that began in May 2008 when all metal detectorists were suddenly banned from Prospect Park, in Brooklyn, after park keepers allegedly observed one man leaving craters in the ground. Metal Detecting Enthusiasts Fight for the Right to Scan Central Park - Manhattan - DNAinfo.com New York

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

The reason places become off limits is because careless people feel entitled to detect anywhere they wish.

Nobody gets mad because somebody asked permission, they get mad when some idiot starts digging up their grass. What do you think happens when they run somebody off? That is not the end of it, they call their boss, then it's brought to the attention of those who regulate these parks. Digging has and will always be the number one problem people have with our hobby. I don't care how careful and gentle you are, there is always two idiots behind you that are not and leave a mess behind. It's time to stop preaching the evils of asking permission, if after ten pages you haven't convinced a soul, your never gonna! It's time to start preaching respect and responsibility! Every time somebody gets run off it makes all of us look bad.

I have never dug a hole while playing frisbee, playing football, riding a bike or any other hobby other than metal detecting. Has there ever been one instance of a frisbee player leaving craters behind? How many football players dig holes and leave them? Anytime there is a regulation put in place it's because of sloppy detectorists or archies trying to protect history. Those two are the cause, not somebody who wants to be sure they are not detecting an area that is off limits. The OP has been ridiculed and belittled for six pages for asking permission. Did they tell him no? Did they rush to put up signs? Did they later declare it off limits? Do me a favor, go anywhere detecting is off limits and ask them why that is. 90% of the time it's because sloppy detectorists, how about instead of twenty threads on permission, we have a few on responsible digging. How many know how to cut a plug so it doesn't kill the grass? How many people use a small dropcloth for the dirt?

The clash over Central Park stems from a dispute that began in May 2008 when all metal detectorists were suddenly banned from Prospect Park, in Brooklyn, after park keepers allegedly observed one man leaving craters in the ground. Metal Detecting Enthusiasts Fight for the Right to Scan Central Park - Manhattan - DNAinfo.com New York

Its really all about location I gather...

because in my areas.

The Football and Soccer players DO tear up the fields with their cleats, and not just little cleat holes, but major areas that the turf wont grow back

and most parks have 1000s of holes from rodents (squirrels/hogs/deer) ..

The abandoned house here and empty lots are pretty much turning into Homeless camps....So I never have an issue hunting those areas


So really, If you look at it that I Hunt Old Homes without permission (90% of them city & owned ready for teardown), and ball fields and city parks..

Me detecting isn't the worst thing that could be happening. Which I know is a blind statement....But the people that matter (The Police) agree with me there too. I have had cops come up to me at houses several times, and all they do is tell me to "Becareful" where im at.

The great thing about the cops in my area, and the fact ive hunted the same general area. Is that they always wave to me, So I really feel if they thought i was doing somethign I shouldnt be , they would at least stop to tell me so

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

"They are probably going to be thinking about the negative things you mentioned and will probably tell you no."

That's nothing but speculation, rumor and bad judgment. Please provided such an example, the OP didn't get run off, he got the go ahead. Search the forum, you will find dozens of posts where people have asked permission and got the green light, many of those locations were off limits. It doesn't matter if somebody asks permission, if they don't want people detecting they will make it off limits regardless. So you don't ask and just do it, then somebody sees you and calls the police or the city. The same result will occur, it's not because too many people asked permission, it's because they don't want people digging holes.

I have read your posts, you don't think anybody should ask permission. As long as there isn't a sign restricting it then it's fair game to you. You might fool some people here but I see right through your nonsense, you just argue for the sake of it. It's all about getting attention, you might find you ridiculous posts entertaining but most of us do not. Personally I think you very immature and only post here to incite drama. If you were really worried about the hobby you would be focused on teaching people the correct way to cut a plug, not arguing over asking permission. There is story after story about people leaving holes behind, this is the reason places are off limits. So the op asked permission, get over it, he didn't hurt anything. I have yet to see one example where asking permission led to a site becoming off limits. You history of posts speak for themselves, typical forum troll.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

No insults, calling a member a troll is an insult......