Possible Capability Differences Between PI Detectors

[msolomon]

Hoping someone can weigh in on possible differences between these two detectors (Clickable Links):

Detech SSP 5100 VS. KTS Pulse AR III

I'm trying to make a buying decision. The KTS Pulse AR III package is about 100 euros cheaper than the Detech SSP 5100 package and includes an extra 10" coil which to me is a huge bonus. But I can't find any video demonstrations or any real product reviews for the KTS unit.

There are both videos and shining reviews for the Detech SSP 5100:



https://www.metaldetector.com/detec...metal-detector-system#customer-reviews-header

So I'm just wondering if this pulse induction technology is pretty much all the same or can one unit really differ greatly from another in terms of depth capability, discrimination etc. For example, if you were testing the KTS 1 x 1m coil along side the equal Detech coil like they are in the video, would both coils more than likely perform equally? Detech also makes the "Relic Striker" which apparently has quite a reputation for depth and accuracy. The Detech unit is made in Bulgaria which I guess is fine. But of course I have more faith in German made products and it would be nice to have that extra 10" coil. Any help with deciding would be greatly appreciated.

 

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[cudamark]

I haven't heard about either machine. It's interesting that both companies claim to have discrimination on these PI machines. I've been keeping an eye on the progress that Fisher is having with their new prototype PI detector with discrimination, but, didn't know these two were already on the market. I'd be interested in some reviews on how they perform as a salt water beach machine looking for gold jewelry....as well as coins and other precious metals....while discriminating out other unwanted metal junk.

 

[Deep1]

It's doubtful if any of us U.S detectorist can help with that question.
Google Euro metal detecting forums, ask question there, you might have better luck.
If you can find more info on these detectors, please post, I would to like to know more about them.

 

[TheGreenBoy]

I don't know the SSP 5100, But i can help with KTS. The discrimination is not very reliable, as with any PI of older generation. All together is fine machine, what i did not like about it was too fast reaction speed. This type of designs have output connected with the OPAMP integrator circuit - metal target under the coil causes slow diminishing of sensitivity. This gives extra stability to the detector and prevents runaway. I call this the reaction. The DBP2010 detector has very slow reaction, the KTS relatively fast. This forces the user to slovly move the coil over the target to get the maximum sensitivity and depth. This is OK with small coils, but with the large frame one is a real pain in the ass. The large frame is swinging, changing proximity to the ground and one ofently cannot know if the reply is false or real targed quenched by machine internal authomatic.

 

[TheGreenBoy]

And yes, if you are interested in deep and large targets, you will need the large frame coil- it will be your main tool.

 

[Opie]

msolomon, That's the big question, PI detectors and discrimination. So here is some honest truth. Its all the same. VLF detectors are all so similar, so too are PI detectors. Its all a science that technology is finally helping with. You can compare the science but not the technology.
I will say there is some unique stuff on the horizon for PI detectors, if its made cheap enough.

Stay Gold!
Opie

 

[msolomon]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in. I'm especially discouraged by what TheGreenBoy said about the KTS unit "one ofently cannot know if the reply is false or real targed quenched by machine internal authomatic". Still hoping someone has experience with the Detech unit and can give a review.

Opie, so when it comes to things like TheGreenBoy is talking about, can one hope for better performance with a different unit even though they're both PI machines? I have no idea about the circuitry of these things or how they differ between units. But it seems possible that the Detech unit could be somehow better tuned to have a slower reaction with the larger coil.

 

[TheGreenBoy]

Don't get me wrong, KTS is a good detector its just not optimized for use with large frame coil, it works best with medium size ones, ie 0,4 or 0,5m of diameter. It will not go that deep with the medium coil, approx 2m max.
Not all the detectors have the reaction, it is the legacy of DBP2010 - a 20 yeares old design.
Same is true for discrimination - poor or none discrimination is the legacy of old days when machines ware analog and computers ware the pale shadow of today's.
The deep seeking hobby detector market is relatively bogus and most PIs you will find are based on old designs, offering pretty much the same: 3 to 5m max. depth and rudimentary or none discrimination, but make no mistake, a modern PI is in no way inferior to the VLF, discrimination included. The professional/military line sets a flavour of PI as a discrim standard - the machines on a totally different level. The downside is the prices and fees are closer to defence budget than a personal one.

 

[TheGreenBoy]

You may check with the Golden mask deep hunter pro for a 1000 EUR range, on the other hand, you may find similar performer as assembled kit called snifer xr71 for 100 EUR, no discrim - but that is not much of a difference in this case or the best in this line, the original DBP2010, if you build it yourselfe.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... I'm especially discouraged by what TheGreenBoy said about the KTS unit "one ofently cannot know if the reply is false or real targed quenched by machine internal authomatic". ....

M-solomon: Welcome to T'net.

While I haven't used/compared the machines your asking about, I CAN chime on on ANY machine's ability to tell "false or real" targets. Namely: There is NO machine that can tell good vs bad targets (eg. gold vs copper vs aluminum vs a cast-iron-stove, etc...). They can tell you "metal". And you might guess sizes and depths. But you can NOT tell "composition" . All you can do is make educated guesses. And even then-so, only on a calibrated basis (eg.: penny vs quarter vs foil wad, etc....)

And I see on another thread you made, that you're looking at claims of machines that can go "45 ft. deep" ?? So .... just wondering: What you're looking for ? Eg.: size and depth, and ....... reason to suspect both components ?

 

[msolomon]

Don't get me wrong, KTS is a good detector its just not optimized for use with large frame coil

That's a deal breaker for me. I would be buying it for the large frame deeper penetrating coil. The smaller coils would just be used for checking the hole as I descend to the buried object. All I can say is thank you for the tremendous help. I would have probably pulled the trigger on the KTS unit and regretted it later. I already have a White's TM 808 and honestly after using it extensively for about a year now I've grown to be very unhappy with the machine. Who knows what you're picking up with this thing. So many false targets. It sounds like I'd be dealing with the same ole same ole with the KTS unit... Definitely not what I'm looking for.

 

[msolomon]

You may check with the Golden mask deep hunter pro for a 1000 EUR range, on the other hand, you may find similar performer as assembled kit called snifer xr71 for 100 EUR, no discrim - but that is not much of a difference in this case or the best in this line, the original DBP2010, if you build it yourselfe.

Wow I had never heard of this unit. This thing looks fantastic! I'm loving the 23" search coil. This actually looks better than the Detech SSP 5100 at half the cost. Dude... Many many thanks for the post.

 

[msolomon]

M-solomon: Welcome to T'net.

What you're looking for ? Eg.: size and depth, and ....... reason to suspect both components ?

Thanks bud. I like hunting larger caches. Sometimes larger ones are recovered from very deep levels. So I'd like a nicely tuned deeper penetrating detector to have a chance at spotting them.

 

[TheGreenBoy]

The TM 808 may come handy in remote areas with no EMI, encluding those comming from the mobile phone in your pocket (i know... i ofently forget that one too). Providing you revamp the mechanical parts to make both coils stifly in place, without even the slitest movement on its own, it's not a bad detector for larger items.
You may chack other PIs too, such as Pulse Star II, or Beringer's Upex 728, Upex xxx - used by some humanitarian orgs for demining. And may others - they are all pretty much the same pair of sosages - performance wise.

 

[TheGreenBoy]

Upex is a bit mor expencieve, but you can't miss with one. The modern Russian MG-1 is also not a bad choice, but i have no idea about the price.

But for the beginning, to see how this TH sport suits you in general, i certanly recommend much chieper solution such as Crazy pulse, sniffer xr71, DBP2010 or similar kit/DIY. You may find the sport much different than general metal detecting with detector in one hand and shovel in the other.

 

[XLV]

I want to thank mslomon for the video and the interesting thread