Possible Morgan Dollar counterfeit at Treasure and Gold Expo

[EmptyPockets]

Went to the expo over the weekend.

Came across a booth with some coins. I like coins. Coins are good. Coins are fabulous.

Anyway, was looking at the Morgans and asked about Carson Cities. They had about 6-7. I looked through them all and spotted a beautiful AU Carson City. I immediately looked at this puppy and was wondering what the deal was? Nice and frosty, minimal to no dings, no wear to speak of.

Looked closely at the CC.
The CC was NOT perpendicular to the Eagle, it was at an angle. Without a loupe you couldn't tell all that much.

Either this is a rare AU CC or we have a counterfeit.
I don't recall the year.
I called attention to the booth lady and she immediately weighed it. 27.6 grams. We compared a circulated CC at 26.8 grams.

Something didn't seem right to me.
Either I passed up a rare CC worth oogles, or I spotted a counterfeit.

No matter what, I walked away.

What say you?
Would the good old USofA ship our a Morgan with a crooked CC on their silver dollar?

 

[Eminem]

Went to the expo over the weekend.

Came across a booth with some coins. I like coins. Coins are good. Coins are fabulous.

Anyway, was looking at the Morgans and asked about Carson Cities. They had about 6-7. I looked through them all and spotted a beautiful AU Carson City. I immediately looked at this puppy and was wondering what the deal was? Nice and frosty, minimal to no dings, no wear to speak of.

Looked closely at the CC.
The CC was NOT perpendicular to the Eagle, it was at an angle. Without a loupe you couldn't tell all that much.

Either this is a rare AU CC or we have a counterfeit.
I don't recall the year.
I called attention to the booth lady and she immediately weighed it. 27.6 grams. We compared a circulated CC at 26.8 grams.

Something didn't seem right to me.
Either I passed up a rare CC worth oogles, or I spotted a counterfeit.

No matter what, I walked away.

What say you?
Would the good old USofA ship our a Morgan with a crooked CC on their silver dollar?

Dawg CC stands for Chinese counterfeit. Most likely fake.

 

[jeff of pa]

first to answer

Would the good old USofA ship our a Morgan with a crooked CC on their silver dollar?

Yes ! if the error can happen, it can end up in circulation.\
that is how most errors are found.

However, I am not so sure the cc is added separate from the rest of the coin.
I think the CC was on the dies used at the Carson City mint in the first place, making it impossible
for the error to happen, even over a short run.

of course I am going by what I think. I never saw a Morgan Dollar Die
that would have been used at CC, D, S, O or any other mint that
would have had their mark

I wanna say it was probably counterfeit , especially if the weight was off so much also.

 

[jeff of pa]

Update Here is a canceled CC Die

It appears the CC is not on it making a slanted CC error possible.
(or is it there ? )




1870-CC $1 Dollar Cancelled Reverse Die and 1870-CC Dollar ... | Lot #5976 | Heritage Auctions

However The Weight ?

 

[l.cutler]

CC most certainly does not stand for Chinese counterfeit! The CC was stamped into the die seperately, so there is variation in the location and angle. There are lots of AU and better CC dollars around, so that is not a problem. The weight is the real kicker though, if the scale is accurate then that may be an indication of a counterfeit. It is also possible the scale is off, the weight you mention for the worn coin is on the high side of normal so if it is heavily worn the scale may be wrong.

 

[Southpaw]

CC most certainly does not stand for Chinese counterfeit! The CC was stamped into the die seperately, so there is variation in the location and angle. There are lots of AU and better CC dollars around, so that is not a problem. The weight is the real kicker though, if the scale is accurate then that may be an indication of a counterfeit. It is also possible the scale is off, the weight you mention for the worn coin is on the high side of normal so if it is heavily worn the scale may be wrong.

He was making a joke because many Carson City Morgans turn out to be counterfeits.

 

[mammoth29]

Check this out- http://www.vamworld.com/1881-CC+VAM-6

1881 cc does have a variation where the cc is tilted. If this was the year you were looking at then it was worth quite a bit, not because of the variation but mainly because of the low mintage.

However, I do agree with most everyone else that the weight made it questionable.

 

[FreedomUIC]

first to answer



Yes ! if the error can happen, it can end up in circulation.\
that is how most errors are found.

However, I am not so sure the cc is added separate from the rest of the coin.
I think the CC was on the dies used at the Carson City mint in the first place, making it impossible
for the error to happen, even over a short run.

of course I am going by what I think. I never saw a Morgan Dollar Die
that would have been used at CC, D, S, O or any other mint that
would have had their mark

I wanna say it was probably counterfeit , especially if the weight was off so much also.

What about the 1900 or 1901 O/CC Morgan?

 

[tarpon192]

2 simple ways to find out without weighing them is to use a small magnet. Hold the coin on a steep angle - place the magnet on it. If the magnet glides slowly down the coin it is silver. If it falls very fast - not silver, and if it sticks to the coin - well you know. The other way is to check for proper die alignment.
I think you made a wise move by walking.

 

[jerseyben]

2 simple ways to find out without weighing them is to use a small magnet. Hold the coin on a steep angle - place the magnet on it. If the magnet glides slowly down the coin it is silver. If it falls very fast - not silver, and if it sticks to the coin - well you know. The other way is to check for proper die alignment.
I think you made a wise move by walking.

I'm not so sure about that particular magnet test...

1. Magnet test (does it stick or not)
2. Weigh it (26.73 grams)
3. Check for suspicious signs of forgery and consider the source (1921-CC, oversized numbers/letters, flea market, etc)
4. Check for uneven or irregular wear patterns and color (softness of features but high grade)
4. Silver "ring" sound test
5. Compare to a known genuine example

 

[GlenDronach]

Yes there's a lot of ways to tell, but a lot of them are destructive to the value.

Hell, if I wanted to make a lot of money, I'd make the correct composition silver Morgans, just make rare dates/errors. The best is the weight and comparing it to genuine examples, it helps if you can show them to an expert.

 

[EmptyPockets]

The more I think about, the more I believe it was counterfeit. A whole gram of difference compared to the other coin just didn't seem right.
I'm wondering if the vendor was duped into thinking it was genuine. Either way, I walked and didn't trust it.
Gotta go with the gut feeling.

 

[jeff of pa]

The more I think about, the more I believe it was counterfeit. A whole gram of difference compared to the other coin just didn't seem right.
I'm wondering if the vendor was duped into thinking it was genuine. Either way, I walked and didn't trust it.
Gotta go with the gut feeling.

Absolutely !

allot of these dealers have one thing on their Minds $$$$$ if someone offers them a deal that's too good
to be true, they grab it because of the possible money to be made.
simple Greed

 

[millerb91]

When I go to shows like that I like to carry a magnet with me I found 4 fake cc that way

 

[Rigo]

Oh man..... Sounds like a fake to me.

 

[Leopard11]

Magnets are just a first line way to spot a fake. Don't go relying on that alone. Of 3 fake examples only one stuck. Weight and diameter seemed to be best. All my real morgans weigh within. .25 g of 26.7g. Even a well worn one with rim worn all the way down weighed maybe .75-1g off. I have 2 examples of fake trade DOLs. The first you tell just by look. It is non magnetic but has a good ring almost sounds like silver might have some in it who knows. But it weighs under 2g and diameter fell short by 1.25mm. The 2nd has good features looks like it could be real. But the diameter was over 1mm too much and weight fell short by 1g too much for a coin in vf + condition. So I decided I would burn a match on it then clean. After that it revealed a copper base and was silver plated.

 

[hokielegend]

Magnets are just a first line way to spot a fake. Don't go relying on that alone. Of 3 fake examples only one stuck. Weight and diameter seemed to be best. All my real morgans weigh within. .25 g of 26.7g. Even a well worn one with rim worn all the way down weighed maybe .75-1g off. I have 2 examples of fake trade DOLs. The first you tell just by look. It is non magnetic but has a good ring almost sounds like silver might have some in it who knows. But it weighs under 2g and diameter fell short by 1.25mm. The 2nd has good features looks like it could be real. But the diameter was over 1mm too much and weight fell short by 1g too much for a coin in vf + condition. So I decided I would burn a match on it then clean. After that it revealed a copper base and was silver plated.

PIX?

 

[unclemac]

Chinese Coin Counterfeting Ring Makes Fake Silver Coins - Fake US Coins & Fake Crowns

worth a look see.....

 

[millerb91]

Chinese Coin Counterfeting Ring Makes Fake Silver Coins - Fake US Coins & Fake Crowns

worth a look see.....

Now that's crazy