Pre WWI What the #@**?

DigEmAll

DigEmAll

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Aug 29, 2005
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Eastern UP, Michigan

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Re: WWII What the #@**?

Never seen one like that before...Im not too good with the number headstamps, that may not be the date on the head it could be the factory number etc...
 

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Re: WWII What the #@**?

Ahhhh... Gg, you almost got me! I was just about to agree with ya! Then I got out the caliper and measured. The case mouth where the bullet would have been is really close to 30 caliber. It looks like someone just chopped two inches out of a 30.06 casing and stuck it back together. I was thinking that it might be some kind of special use round. Maybe one used to fire the rifle propelled grenades? Whatever it is, in my long history of dealing with firearms and such, I have never seen anything like this. But if memory serves me, I believe that they just used a standard issue blank for the rifle propelled grenades. Any vets out there know for sure? ???
 

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Re: WWII What the #@**?

standard blank rounds like used in starter pistols look like this. i have some 357 rounds now crimped as such.......but i am not positive this is what you have, just looks very similar................gldhntr
 

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Re: WWII What the #@**?

Nope, that's not it... this one isn't crimped. It looks like it actually had a bullet in it. It looks just like the 22 lugar that Gg posted earlier but with a 30 caliber bullet.
 

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Re: WWII What the #@**?

that would be one powerful wildcat 22 round...maybe a custom sniper type rifle ? .......gldhntr
 

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Re: WWII What the #@**?

A guess would be .30 cal. Tokarev. Otherwise 7.62x25 mm. Used by eastern block countries. A high velocity pistol and machine pistol round. With out seeing up close my old eyes could be tricking me.

good luck :)
 

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Re: WWII What the #@**?

what dimension do you get for the outside of the neck...inside would be quite a bit over size due to being fired on top of the corrosion of the case from powder burns.....
how close where the rest of the measurements of the case compared to the chart?..
most designations for a head stamp with an A I found came from south africa???.Gg
 

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Re: WWII What the #@**?

tailfeathers said:
A guess would be .30 cal. Tokarev.? Otherwise 7.62x25 mm.? Used by eastern block countries. A high velocity pistol and machine pistol round. With out seeing up close my old eyes could be tricking me.

good luck :)
Click to expand...
http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm

after tailfeathers post there are many 30 cals with less than .9 in case lengths...run the calipers and let us know which one fits best..Gg
 

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Re: WWII What the #@**?

Before I start, I must make an appoligy. It is NOT like the 30.06. This is a RIMMED cartrage. I don't know how I made such a mistake, but it happens from time to time! :P

After I had time to inspect it a little better, I don't believe that this ever had a bullet in it's mouth. The case mouth is rolled over like when you cut copper tubing. However it is not crimped as a blank is. It is open like it should have something inside. It also has a heavy crimp on the neck, about 1/8 inch from the mouth, which is the reason that i believe that it did have something inside it.

I have made my comparisons and have decided that this is some type of 30-40 Krag round. I have also included a top view of the round showing the mouth and a comparison photo with a 30-40 Krag round.

Ok, the tale of the tape is....

SUBJECT
Rim - .540
Case - .460ish (lots of corrosion)
Neck - .333
OAL - 1.060

30-40 Krag
Rim - .540
Case - .450
Neck - .333
 

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Re: WWI What the #@**?

Another correction I needed to make was the headstamp.? I had said that it was A 60 4 5, but after some cleaning, I have to say that it is? ? ?F? A? 5? 09

Sorry again!!!! :-\
 

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Re: WWII What the #@**?

UPDATE!!!!

The headstamp F A 5 09 has been decoded!!!

Frankford Arsenal May, 1909


Up until 1918, the month was included in military headstamps.

Now, just need to figure out what the heck this specific cartridge is!
 

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The headstamp ID's it as a military cartridge that was made in May of 1909. Don't think that they had nail guns back then... course as I have proven TWICE in this thread, I might be wrong! But thanks for trying to help!!! ;)
 

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thats what I got 2....
after looking at a few other links that could have held a paper wad hence the heavy crimp???
in the 30cal krag...
found a long list of Krag rds with close stamps that had paper wads.but no match or pics...still it's over a century old....NICE find.Gg
 

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Thanks Double G. I have been looking ever since I got home... about six hours now. I know that is isn't a "blank" now, and the other stuff that I posted about it earlier but that is it!
 

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I can find no reference to anything that resembles this. I don't believe it is a blank or gallery load intended to be fired in a 30/40 Krag, as I don't believe it would be safe to fire even a blank so much shorter than the chamber, and it wouldn't feed through the magazine.

My only guess, then, is that it's a wildcat some guy made out of cut down and re-necked 30/40 brass, but I can't believe he would discard the spent cartridge if he went to that much trouble to make it. Are there any cracks, from metal fatigue, in the case mouth? That would make it useless for further reloading.
 

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No, no cracks of fatigue. It looks good. I am rather sure that this is the original shape of the case. I am also pretty sure that it never contained a bullet. It has a really rolled over case mouth and a heavy rolled crimp about 1/8 inch below the case mouth. It was found in the middle of an Army camp that had 15,000 troops there to defend the city from Pancho Villa.
 

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It has to be some kind of blank or grenade launching round. Not many wildcatters hung around military bases in those days. Perhaps even a flare. I have been involved in reloading and the shooting sports for nearly 40 years and I have never seen one like that. It would have to have been loaded one round at a time due to its short length so it would be some kind of specialty cartridge. Keep lookin' andmaybe it will come to light. KS
 

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Car part maybe?

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