✅ SOLVED Pulled grom gulf part II (silver bracelet)

[Crispin]

part of antique silver bracelet, anybody recognize style?

 

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[villagenut]

Looks like I see plier marks from being squeezed flat.

 

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[ARC]

Looks like the old nylon fishing string as well...
But hey... silver is silver...

UNLESS.........................................................................................

The test was misread.

Crispin...
What was the test and the results ?
18k streak test ?
What color ?
Bluish or grey or white ?

 

[G.I.B.]

Simply awesome!

Great photography by the spousal unit.

This is one heck of a mystery.

Oh yeah, and don't tell her I called her a 'spousal unit', I A. don't want to use her name on this forum & B. Don't want her sticking an ice pick in my ear.

I can't wait to get home and hit this area again.

Since's it's silver, I wonder if this is more of a transportation method, keeping the silver chunks on a string (to keep from loosing any) instead of some type of jewelry or fishing gizmo?

Pondering this over a Guiness Blonde- arf.

 

[Crispin]

got wife to take one lat round of pictures...

 

[Crispin]

I know that the OP said he tested them for silver(i think he said that) but it seems reasonable that these may have been part of a fishing associated find. Similar to the old split shot weights we crimp onto our line, one weight then two...whatever it took. Could this be a fishing line with crimp on weights. I don't see anything wrong with this except the silver part of it. JMO....vn

2 Ag+ (aq) + 2 e- ------> 2 Ag (s)

Here, two silver ions (silver with a positive charge) are being reduced through the addition of two (2) electrons to form solid silver. The abbreviations "aq" and "s" mean aqueous and solid, respectively. We can now combine the two (2) half-reactions to form a redox equation:

We can also discuss the individual components of these reactions as follows. If a chemical causes another substance to be oxidized, we call it the oxidizing agent. In the equation above, Ag+ is the oxidizing agent, because it causes Cu(s) to lose electrons. Oxidants get reduced in the process by a reducing agent. Cu(s) is, naturally, the reducing agent in this case, as it causes Ag+ to gain electrons.

As a summary, here are the steps to follow to balance a redox equation in acidic medium (add the starred step in a basic medium):

Divide the equation into an oxidation half-reaction and a reduction half-reaction
Balance these
Balance the elements other than H and O
Balance the O by adding H2O
Balance the H by adding H+
Balance the charge by adding e-
Multiply each half-reaction by an integer such that the number of e- lost in one equals the number gained in the other
Combine the half-reactions and cancel
**Add OH- to each side until all H+ is gone and then cancel again**

In considering redox reactions, you must have some sense of the oxidation number (ON) of the compound. The oxidation number is defined as the effective charge on an atom in a compound, calculated according to a prescribed set of rules. An increase in oxidation number corresponds to oxidation, and a decrease to reduction. The oxidation number of a compound has some analogy to the pH and pK measurements found in acids and bases -- the oxidation number suggests the strength or tendency of the compound to be oxidized or reduced, to serve as an oxidizing agent or reducing agent. The rules are shown below. Go through them in the order given until you have an oxidation number assigned.

For atoms in their elemental form, the oxidation number is 0
For ions, the oxidation number is equal to their charge
For single hydrogen, the number is usually +1 but in some cases it is -1
For oxygen, the number is usually -2
The sum of the oxidation number (ONs) of all the atoms in the molecule or ion is equal to its total charge.

As a side note, the term "oxidation", with its obvious root from the word "oxygen", assumes that oxygen has an oxidation number of -2. Using this as a benchmark, oxidation numbers were assigned to all other elements. For example, if we look at H2O, and assign the value of -2 to the oxygen atom, the hydrogens must each have an oxidation number of +1 by default, since water is a neutral molecule. As an example, what is the oxidation number of sulfur in sulfur dioxide (SO2)? Given that each oxygen atom has a -2 charge, and knowing that the molecule is neutral, the oxidation number for sulfur must be +4. What about for a sulfate ion (SO4 with a total charge of -2)? Again, the charge of all the oxygen atoms is 4 x -2 = -8. Sulfur must then have an oxidation number of +6, since +6 + (-8) = -2, the total charge on the ion. Since the sulfur in sulfate has a higher oxidation number than in sulfur dioxide, it is said to be more highly oxidized.

Working with redox reactions is fundamentally a bookkeeping issue. You need to be able to account for all of the electrons as they transfer from one species to another. There are a number of rules and tricks for balancing redox reactions, but basically they all boil down to dealing with each of the two half-reactions individually. Consider for example the reaction of aluminum metal to form alumina (Al2O3). The unbalanced reaction is as follows:

Looking at each half reaction separately:

This reaction shows aluminum metal being oxidized to form an aluminum ion with a +3 charge. The half-reaction below shows oxygen being reduced to form two (2) oxygen ions, each with a charge of -2.

If we combine those two (2) half-reactions, we must make the number of electrons equal on both sides. The number 12 is a common multiple of three (3) and four (4), so we multiply the aluminum reaction by four (4) and the oxygen reaction by three (3) to get 12 electrons on both sides. Now, simply combine the reactions. Notice that we have 12 electrons on both sides, which cancel out. The final step is to combine the aluminum and oxygen ions on the right side using a cross multiply technique:

Taking care of the number of atoms, you should end up with:

One of the more useful calculations in redox reactions is the Nernst Equation. This equation allows us to calculate the electric potential of a redox reaction in "non-standard" situations. There exist tables of how much voltage, or potential, a reaction is capable of producing or consuming. These tables, known as standard potential tables, are created by measuring potential at "standard" conditions, with a pressure of 1 bar (≅1 atm), a temperature of 298° K (or 25° C, or room temperature) and with a concentration of 1.0 M for each of the products. This standard potential, or E°, can be corrected by a factor that includes the actual temperature of the reaction, the number of moles of electrons being transferred, and the concentrations of the redox reactants and products. The equation is:

 

[Crispin]

Okay, lead cannot be oxidized easily, this is due to the stability of the valence electrons in its outer shell. Under certain high pressure circumstances lead can be oxidized but the result is a poisonous gas. It passed my basic acid streak test for silver. To make sure I took Al foil and laid it down in a pan. I mixed in Baking soda, applied heat, and added the "pieces." I then watched as gases bubbled off the pieces of metal. Lead DOES NOT do this. The result was that the "pieces" turned even blacker. This was easily remedied by washing it under soap and water. Repeat this process several times over the span of 45 minutes and you get the silver color you see. I could do this another dozen times in another 45 minutes but each time it is done some of the silver is lost and the design is lost. The sharpness of the image gets duller and duller.

I agree those are plier marks. It is silver, I bet my life on it.

One more thing: the images from today show the silver has already started to tarnish. If you look at the first set of images you will see the silver sheen. Lead does not tarnish at all. IE...exchange of electrons. Do I need to get it all nice and shiny again to prove this? I would rather not ruin the pieces...

 

[Crispin]

Here is a picture of lead dug up from the exact same spot on the same day. Totally different...



I don't want to broadcast to the world by identity. If anybody really needs validation that I know what I am talking about then PM Treasure Hunter. He can vouch that I am highly educated and able to figure this sort of thing out.

 

[Crispin]

Here are some pieces of lead I have dug up in the past and not stated were silver:



Here are some pieces of silver I have dug up in the past, on the right is what I believe to be part of a Spanish Cob that I dug up in the Caribbean:



Can we please put this to rest?

 

[G.I.B.]

Two hydrogen atoms walk into a bar.

"Hey, I think I lost an electron," says one.

"Are you sure?" asks the other.

"Yes, I'm positive."

Gotta love science!

I guess it's silver and not lead. I'm still going with my theory that someone suck silver pieces on a string so they wouldn't loose them, and could pull off small pieces as needed for barter.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

 

[Crispin]

What's the derivative of 1/cabin... Log cabin, lol.

 

[villagenut]

I was not doubting you at all, I was just making the suggestion that these cobs may have been squeezed onto this line with pliers in order to catch some fish...that's all. It was just odd to me that silver coins would be used in this way. I really liked your explanation although it was WAY over my head...that said, there is no doubt that you did a test on this metal.

 

[Crispin]

Here is a fun fact, the square root of 3 is George Washington's birthday...1.732

 

[Crispin]

I was not doubting you at all, I was just making the suggestion that these cobs may have been squeezed onto this line with pliers in order to catch some fish...that's all. It was just odd to me that silver coins would be used in this way. I really liked your explanation although it was WAY over my head...that said, there is no doubt that you did a test on this metal.

Sorry, I probably overreacted. I'm not saying they are Reals...I leave that up to experts. But I know it is silver. If you do any gulf hunting... never throw away any piece of metal until you test it. You would be amazed how precious metals can hide.

 

[Peyton Manning]

Not woven. It is definitely sinew. I am in medicine field. Very familiar with what flesh looks like...

so, the fact is it is not sinew?
I am not in medicine field yet am also familiar with flesh as mine keeps expanding. That looked woven to me.

 

[Crispin]

so, the fact is it is not sinew?
I am not in medicine field yet am also familiar with flesh as mine keeps expanding. That looked woven to me.

You got me on that one. When I boiled the pieces it melted the nylon together and totally didn't look woven to me...I was wrong. That is why I went over my lab with a fine tooth comb to find the original piece. I can man up and say I was wrong. It was obviously threaded when I found the original.

 

[Peyton Manning]

an honorable man, I bow to you

 

[Crispin]

an honorable man, I bow to you

I thank you for the compliment Sir. In my experience only, it takes an honorable man to know one.

 

[Peyton Manning]

I thank you for the compliment Sir. In my experience only, it takes an honorable man to know one.

True on the surface, yet not being a supermodel I still recognize them

 

[ARC]

At first this piece was a total "artifact" heh...

By each set of "better" pics and more info...

It went from the great native Colusa Chief Carlos's personal necklace that has small Spanish reals beaten on with a sacred pliers...
Strung on cat gut from extinct mountain cat... so rare it was from when Florida had mountains...
Each beaten piece representing a conquistador he had personally killed using only fear.

To...

To clumps of silver from god knows where... squeezed on by a vise grip... and strung on a shoelace.

Heh.

 

[Peyton Manning]

as forrest said " silver is as silver does"