Put away your metal detectors sheeple

[Smudge]

Our House and Senate are Republican controlled.

They pay a lot of lip service to smaller government that is less invasive and gives more freedom to the people.

Ok, lets see that put into action.

Folks, if you haven't written yet, right now would be a really good time to do so.

 

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[hobbit]

The bill's sponsor is a Republican. I don't want to inject politics into this too much, but when do the Republican's miss an opportunity to ram Law Enforcement up your butt as far as possible? If you expect ideological consistancy out of these guys, you are going to be dissapointed. This is about money and power and control. The only way this thing is going to be stopped is if they are afraid they might lose something. There probably aren't enough of us to make that happen, but we damn sure ought to try. If this passes, treasure hunting is illegal in Florida except on private property. Or on a Lease...until they take THAT away as well. And they will try...

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

STOP POSTING IN THE FORUM, PACK YOUR DETECTORS IN YOUR CARS AND DRIVE TO THE STATE CAPITAL AND MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD! START DETECTING THE LAWN AT THE GOVERNOR'S MANSION!

 

[ivan salis]

today I called my local state of florida house rep (janet adkins) about H 591 and senator (stephen r wise) anout S 868 * both bills are about the same thing the "shutting of of all public owed land be it any state controlled area (like a state park wit or without a beach *) or any "political sub group owned land "-(-ie read as any florida county or city owned land * ) (read the state trumps local govts) -- the state will decide WITHOUT NOTIFACTATION TO THE LOCAL AREA GOVTS / GROUPS * -- (read WE state archies will tell you locals whats what and are in total control like it or not). --this in erffect will allow the state archies to totally shut off any and all public lands as they see fit to any form of "artifact collecting" -- heck just "looking for stuff" to tell the state archies were it is , without even actually removing anything at from a site all would be a crime , as you would be do in their words "unpermitted feild investagations " -- thats right to even "look" and try to find any "historic" stuff would require a "state issued "permit"--which will only be "issued' to people that the state archies feel are qualifed to do "proper" research and recovery' --(read "professional archies only' common folks need not apply )

under economoic impact * it says "none" --what are these folks nuts or just stupid or just bold faced liars ? -- tourist come to florida often metal detector in hand to hit the beaches looking to try and find a spanish silver or gold coin on the beaches --heck lots of folks been doing it for years -- let these new rules shut off florida state park beaches that they can go to and create doubt about if they "might get in trouble" for detecting here in florida or can not do what they want to during "their" hard earned vaction time --well simplely put there are lots of other more "metal detectorist" freindly spot to stay at .

 

[FISHEYE]

Someone needs to contact the government for the cities that are in the treasure coast areas and tell them they will have to rename it to the "Forbidden Coast"

 

[DewGuru]

Current email addresses for all 40 florida state senators:

[mod]Link Edited for obvious reason (Length)
[/mod]

alexander.jd.web@flsenate.gov,altman.
[email]thad.web@flsenate.gov[/email],benacquisto.
[email]lizbeth.web@flsenate.gov,bennett.mike[/email].
[email]web@flsenate.gov,bogdanoff.elly[/email]n.
[email]web@flsenate.gov,braynon.osca[/email]r.
[email]web@flsenate.gov,bullard.larc[/email]enia.
[email]web@flsenate.gov,dean.charles.web[/email]@flsenate.
gov,detert.nancy.web@flsenate.gov,portilla.
[email]miguel.web@flsenate.gov,dockery.paul[/email]a.
[email]web@flsenate.gov,evers.greg.web[/email]@flsenate.
gov,fasano.mike.web@flsenate.gov,flores.
[email]anitere.web@flsenate.gov,gaetz.don.web[/email]@flsenate.
gov,garcia.rene.web@flsenate.gov,gardiner.
[email]andy.web@flsenate.gov,gibson.audr[/email]ey.
[email]web@flsenate.gov,haridopolos.mike[/email].
[email]web@flsenate.gov,hays.alan.web[/email]@flsenate.
gov,jones.dennis.web@flsenate.gov,joyner.
[email]arthenia.web@flsenate.gov,latvala.jack[/email].
[email]web@flsenate.gov,lynn.evelyn.web[/email]@flsenate.
gov,margolis.gwen.web@flsenate.gov,
[email]montford.bill.web@flsenate.gov[/email],negron.
[email]joe.web@flsenate.gov,norman.jim.web[/email]@flsenate.
gov,oelrich.steve.web@flsenate.gov,rich.nan.
[email]web@flsenate.gov,richter.garrett.web[/email]@flsenate.
gov,ring.jeremy.web@flsenate.gov,sachs.maria.
[email]web@flsenate.gov,simmons.david.web[/email]@flsenate.
gov,siplin.gary.web@flsenate.gov,smith.chris.
[email]web@flsenate.gov,sobel.eleanor.web[/email]@flsenate.
gov,storms.ronda.web@flsenate.
gov,thrasher.john.web@flsenate.gov,wise.
[email]stephen.web@flsenate.gov[/email]

Simply cut/paste it into the BCC field of your emailer to email them all in 1 shot.

 

[FISHEYE]

I sent a email to wesh channel 2 about this,lets see if i get a response.

 

[ivan salis]

folks let me make it as clear as I know how to by letting you know of my own 'personal" dealings with the state of florida division of archie --

long ago -- Thru lots of time consuming "private" research , thru historical records and maps I figgered out the true secerts of a old shipwreck in nassau sound florida (between little talbot and amelia island florida)-- because of 1715 fleet era type items found on the local beaches found there--- were of the same type as carried on the the 1715 treasure fleet -- some folks thought it was one of the two "missing" original 1715 fleet vessels ( the EL CIEVRO OR THE SAN MIGUEL) -- adding to the fact of why people thought that was a letter dated sept 20 ,1715 --in which salmon stated --'of the two missing gallones, there is little doubt but that they sank upon the high seas because wreckage of a large vessel or vessel was found on the coast north of st augustine "-- this made folks in error link the nassau sound wreck with the 2 "missing" 1715 fleet vessels -being nassau sound is "north" of st augustine
-- the letter once properly translared shouls be read --on the "north coast of st augustine" thus the wreckage salmon is speaking of is just north of st augustine on their coastline. (near st augustine)

supporting my theory is a letter dated oct 24th .1715 by the govenor of virginia alexander spotswood to british home sec lord stanhope in which spotswood is seeking royal approval to salvage a wreck site in nassau sound --in a PS at the bottom of the letter it spells out in detail exactly what the nassau sound wreck is --the type of vessel it was (barcalonga) , where it came from(havana , cuba) what it was doing and its cargo contents -- (rescuing vips and royal treasure from the 1715 fleet wreck sites ) and where it sank at (about 40 miles north of st augustine *-- exact where nassau sound is)

I gathered up my "proof" and approached the state , they told me that I was most likely 100% correct and that i had done good historical research -- but that the area was a "aquatic preserve zone" and since treasure salvaging might disturb the bottom it , I was not ever going to be issued any permits for the area . -- i pointed out A FEW "FACTS' TO THE STATE #1 that the army corp of engineers had only a few years before done "beach renourishment" projEcts in the same exact area * AND IF PUMPING SAND OFF THE OCEAN FLOOR ONTO THE BEACH ISN'T DITURBING THE BOTTOM WHAT IS? AS WELL #2 THAT THE HISTORIC SEA CHAT (MAPS) OF THE AREA AS WELL AS CURRENT MAOPS --HAVE WORDING ON THEM THAT BASICALLY SAY "DO NOT TRUST THE DEPTHS MARKED ON THE MAP AS THE THE BOTTOM IS CONSTANTLY SHIFTING ABOUT."

later on I was told that "permits" might be availible if I hooked up with a "not for profiet' group and that the "project" could be funded via a EPA grant fund -- the "hook" with that is the state and "non profiet group" keep everything found on the wreck -- and I get to write a book all about "my find" (and how I got screwed out of it )-- so ya the state of florida archie dept hates "treasue hunters" bottom line -they do not deal fairly and issue permits like they should

another "fine" personal exsample was the recent -- rules changes -that the state dept of archie was trying to put into effect -- one wonderful bit was the fact to get a "permit' one had to have a "archie" sign on as the "project" archie for your project to make sure things were done "properly"while salvaging a vessel -- the rules stated that the "project" archie had to belong to a certain "state aproved" archie group to be acceptible as a "project archie"-- the catch ? -- just before they went to enact the "new" state rules the exact "archie group' the state required you to get a "project archie" from --passed a by law for their group which stated that no member of this group would work for ANY for profeit salvors ,
if one did sign up to work for a for profiet salvor they would be stripped of membership in the group those losing their "status" as a member.

if I had not caught it and exposed it at the public hearings -- before it was passed on and made into "law" --- it would have "required' salvors in order to get a permit to hire a "project archie" from a group that bars its members from working for "for profiet salvors" -- thus it would set up a legally "impossible to meet standard" to obtain a permit --slick huh?-- i told them as a state of florida tax payor setting up such a legal "catch 22" standard would only lead to a lawsuit , which the tax payor would have to pay for and which they would lose since its clearly illegal to "knowingly set up asuch an "impossible standard " to meet to obtain a permit .

yes by hook or by crook , the state archies do not want the "public' getting anything historical or of interest - especially if it fiscally valuible * -0- the state owns all bow to your masters.

please note this is not a "slam" on all archies --there a few good guys out there * -- but this is about the "ones in control" --the bosses of the state of florida archie dept --the ones who decide if and when you "might" get a permit to do salvage work -- ps the person who "hinted' to me about doing my "project" via the "non profiet / epa grant funded" angle at the time was non other than the head of the state of florida archies himself ( who is now no longer employed by florida , thankfully --but his "replacement" hates treasure hunters even worse than he did if thats possible)

 

[Twisted One]

Ivan, I am sure there are a lot of people out there happy as heck that you had your eyes open, and saw that catch 22 before it got voted in.

The only problem I have is this issue of "Evil State Archies". From the very little I have been looking into the Archie fields. It seems that the majority work for a state or federal institution. More or less those are the only people that are going to pay someone to dig for them.
There are a few contract Archies I have read about, but you have to have a lot of experience under your belt, and some really good finds to have the kind of influence that will get the contract of a private firm.

I have the feeling that when you mention these State archies, and the garbage they tried to pull, you are probably referring to a small elitist group, a group that I would guess a lot of other archies don't even like. They are more of a political bunch, than they are a academic bunch.

I am only questioning this because I have very little knowledge of the Archaeological community at this point. The little I have read however suggest that the majority of them are more or less like us, only paid to do it. And because it is a profession they have a better likely hood to get permits to do what they do.

I get the feeling that the average archaeologist is getting a bum rap, much in the way that people trash talk "All police officer" because one police officer wrote them a seat belt ticket.

 

[Zephyr]

You all are mis-interpretting this. Notice it only applies to " .... any archaeological site ...." The whole state of FL and all beaches there are not an "archaeological site" ! To get such a designation, the location has to individually be declared such, to be such. Read further, and you will see the protocols for having some part of govt. land be declared an "archaeological site". You know, like there has to be some reason, an archie study, etc.... And logic dictates that if a site needs to be declared "archaeologically significant", in order to receive this designation, then .... DUH, it was not an "archaeological site" PRIOR to receiving the designation.

This is the same mistake made often time for KY land, where the same distinction/wording occurs already, and some people made the mistake of thinking that all KY public land was off-limits. It wasn't. Only those lands deemed/designated as "archaeological sites".

Read it carefully in the context I'm saying, and you'll see this is the way it reads. People are getting all caught up too much in the "all public lands..." part, without seeing that it's .... yes .... all public land that HAS BEEN DEEMED AN ARCHAEOLOGICAL SITE (and no, the entire state's public lands have not been designated an archaeological site!!)

This law is only to get the "foot in the door" to eventually lead to restrictions on private land. The people behind this "law" know they can't drop their entire agenda into place at once, so they are going to goosestep it in a little at a time.

Another disturbing scenario that is possible is that if you are "caught" with something of "historical value", they just have to say that you "stole" it from some "archealogical site", and the whole expense will be on you to prove your innocence.
"Excuse me sir, may we search your car?"
"uh, okay"
"Well, well, look at what we found here. Looks like some old bottles and rusty horse shoes."
"I got those from my Aunt Mary."
"Tell it to the Judge, sir. It's obvious that you are stealing from some archealogical site. Nice car. Too bad it's going to be seized and impounded. Off to jail with you!"

(oh, and can someone edit that link so that we don't have to scroll way way way over? Thanks!)

 

[FISHEYE]

Everything that you have found recently or in the future after july 1 2012.You found it 20 years ago before any law or bill pertained to it.Of course you dont tell anyone you found something.

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Sounds like this bill could turn some un-suspecting tourist who just happens to find an old coin or an arrow head, into a felon.
Picture this, a tourist walking down the beach sees something in the sand, reaches down and picks it up. He discovers that he just found a Spanish cob so he puts it in his pocket. All the time he was being watched by a over zealous park ranger just out of ranger school.
Bang the jail cell doors are closed the poor guy might even loose his car or RV if the ranger lets him walk back to his vehicle.

Oh yea, watch that they don't include historical sites and artifacts as well, this would include fossils and shark teeth.

I will write the FL tourist people and express my disbelief.
ZDD

 

[signumops]

Unfortunately, the house already passed their version (HB 591), and they passed it unanimously. That included a vote from my representative, Crissafulli. I wrote him as follows:

CS/HB 591 - Archeological Sites and Specimens

I asked that you deny passage of a similar bill (858), but, of course I was too late... you already voted for the house version.

I don't know what you were thinking (perhaps you were not thinking) when you did this.

Why did you vote to pass HB 591?


... I will post his reply if I get one.

 

[Bum Luck]

I will write the FL tourist people and express my disbelief.
ZDD

We need to call Tourist Chambers of Commerce & the business people, and tell them that tourism will suffer if this is passed.

Do it now!

 

[Bum Luck]

The bill's sponsor is a Republican.

That's almost incredible, if it weren't true.

 

[Bum Luck]

For those who need enlightenment,
As soon as we find something and report it to the sate to obtain a permit, the state denies the permit on the grounds that we were exploring illegally. Tells us we're to consider ourselves lucky we don't get arrested and then confiscates what we found, afterwards, makes the area that we found it in OFF LIMITS. This has happened more and more.
BTW Senator Gaetz sent this reply:


Dear Mr. Redman,

Thanks very much for writing me regarding Senate Bill 868, Archaeological Sites and Specimens, sponsored by Senator Alan Hays (R-Umatilla). I greatly appreciate you writing and sharing with me your views on this legislation.

As you may know, Senate Bill 868 passed unanimously in the Government Oversight and Accountability Senate Committee and is now waiting to be heard in the Budget Subcommittee on Transportation, Tourism, Economic Development, a committee on which I sit. I will certainly keep your views in mind when it comes before this committee.

Again, thanks for writing me. Your comments, criticisms and guidance help me be a better Senator for Northwest Florida.

Respectfully,

Senator Don Gaetz

He blew you off, alright, Aquanut. But if he got 1,000 of these, I'll bet he'd sweat it more than a little.

Keep it up!

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Here is the E-mail I sent of the FL department of tourism. I hope that I am not the only one.
ZDD

Good day, I am writing this to bring to your attention a bill that is about to be passed this summer in your state that will affect 10s of thousands of metal detector enthusiasts from across the USA and other parts of the world that take this hobby into consideration, when deciding where to book their next vacation.
Bill SB868 will make it a felony to medal detect in most of your state. It will also make a felon out of the un-suspecting tourist that happens to pick up an old coin on the beach and put it in his/her pocket. It can also lead to the confiscation of their RV or car.
Please pass this up your chain of command so this bill can be closely examined as to the impact on tourism in your state. I would hate to have to give up coming to FL because of this law but there are plenty of other destinations that will allow for metal detecting beaches and so forth.
Thank you,

 

[mariner]

Whatever happened to "Government of the People, by the People, for the People"?

Lincoln must be turning in his grave at the way the Florida beurocrats and legislators are treating the people who live or visit there.

Good luck with getting this latest piece of injustice overturned.

Mariner

 

[signumops]

As I stated, I contacted my own representative, Steve Crisafulli, who voted for the bill. I asked him why. In his answer, he would not vouch for his own vote, simply implying that the 'house' did it. He also implied that the measure only applied to public lands, ergo, in his mind I guess that means the government can do as it likes, since it is a public domain issue. Absolutely no cognition on his part regarding the rule of law, or the mechanisms of arrest outlined in the bill he voted for. His reply to me....


Dear Mr. Armstrong,

Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition to SB 868. As your State Representative, I appreciate learning of your views on this issue.

Recently, the Florida House unanimously approved HB 521, which is the House companion to SB 868. It appears to me that the provisions of HB 521 only apply to publicly owned lands, not private property. However, I will keep your concerns in mind should SB 868 or HB 521 come back before me for a vote this year.

Again, thank you for your email. Please do not hesitate to contact me with any other questions or concerns you may have in the future.

Respectfully,

Steve

 

[Twisted One]

Whatever happened to "Government of the People, by the People, for the People"?

Lincoln must be turning in his grave at the way the Florida beurocrats and legislators are treating the people who live or visit there.

Good luck with getting this latest piece of injustice overturned.

Mariner

We the people, is a matter of perspective..... If you are the government then you would see yourself as "We the people". While us that suffer the government, consider ourselves, "We the people" At some point one of us is not "We the people".

The fact is the first dozen times that the government made "amendments" to the constitution of the united states, we doomed ourselves as "We the people" by allowing it. The arguments from the government are typically, "Our forefathers wrote that documents based on their current technology and understanding, so we can not be held to it without making amendments to account for our increasing populations, technology, etc..."
BS, our forefathers were land stealing, indian killing, slave trading, rebels, who flipped the bird at the king of england, and sent his troops running scared, so we could live without tyranny.
Which of course we eventually couldn't live without, so we evolved our self imposed government into the most law creating, money burning, stepping in everyone business monstrosity ever imagined.

And here We the people sit, discussing how bad it has become, and we are so overwhelmed by the power of "They the government" that we feel that even as "We the people" we can do nothing.