Put away your metal detectors sheeple

[Conch1]

The State of Florida has already mapped and designated vast areas as potential archaeological heritage areas based on likely former occupation by "indigenous" persons, which means pretty much all riparian areas along with the adjacent uplands. For some time now they have required that developers pay to secure an archaeologic assessment of the site from a new class of "professional" consultant they have empowered, i.e., anybody with a batchelor's degree in archaeology. I've seen development clients burdened by having to pay $5K - $10K to some social idealogue (typically a former DNR employee they recommend) to conclude that there are no significant artifacts on these sites.

Personally, this new law sounds like an expansion of their jurisdiction, to me.

 

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[Twisted One]

Maybe the Florida clubs can band together and start a non-profit preservation society! Then you can all get government grants to detect on the lands you normally couldn't detect on before.

 

[ivan salis]

it is a elitist "power grab" by enacting these "rules" they legally take total control of any and all pubicly owned lands in florida - since "they" will decide what land is "historically important" WITHOUT contacting any local county or city goverments or having any "input" by the local people . --

currently "private land owners" can allow the archies to "declare" their land as "historically important" if they wish it --but be forewarned if they do you will lose all control of what you can or can not do on "your" own land --digging on any part of it might be barred --say you need a new sewer line to the house installed --opps now you got to apply for a special state "permit" to dig on your own "historic land"

this is how it starts folks -- first they get you used to the fact that they control "everything historical" (for "the public's own good mind you) by snatching up all public lands and putting them in their pocket -- then its on to private lands -- oregon state NOW CURRENTLY has laws on the books that state that ALL historical artifacts (anything over 50 years old * that the state might want ) as well as all treasure trove type items --belongs to the state of oregon --no matter where it is found in the state --be it on public OR PRIVATE LAND * -- YEP "THE STATE OWNS IT ALL --EVEN WHATS ON YOUR PRIVATE LAND . --SCARY HUH?

stop bad laws from getting put on the books to begin with * and you will not have to deal with the nonsense bad laws create , when they are abused by self appointed power hungry lil micro manager types employed by the "grubbermint" = (greedy grabbing all powerful govt)

 

[Twisted One]

Pretty soon only outlaws will own detectors?....

 

[FISHEYE]

This bill will also apply to the use of metal detectors at all florida airports.They will have to do away with them all due to people that are over 50 years old and some have historic value.

 

[ivan salis]

by oregon's state laws way of thinking --your adverage metal detectorist looking for something cool to find --is an "outlaw" --who's if he finds a 200 year old silver spanish coin on a oregon state public beach and walks to his car with it --should be arrested , and have all his detecting gear as well as his car forfeited . -- nice huh?

I say lets keep those nazi / commie west coast "laws" out of the east coast my freinds ( or esle we will suffer the after effects , as they slowly turn you into PC correct "sheeple" --- mindless tofu eating zombie slaves of the state )

 

[mariner]

Ivan,

I live in Oregon and I can assure you that nobody tries to stop anybody using a metal detector on our beaches.

Mariner

 

[ivan salis]

the question is are the laws on the books in oregon ?-- not if you been hit by em yet -- what if one day if some barney fife type park ranger wants to hose you with em just becaude he so chooses to ? -- do want them to have the "legal right' to screw you over on a whim (say hes having a "bad day" and wants to get someone) -- i sure don't-- so I say don't "empower" them in the first place by letting them pass "bad laws" -- if you do not let them "empower" themselves then they can't abuse the power)--these types of laws can place a whole lot of power in the wrong hands , if they choose to use em on you.

 

[Twisted One]

I think the real question is, how can we as the metal detecting, treasure seeking, community fight these laws? The laws are there on a federal level no matter what. The Antiquity act, and a few others that declare anything of a certain age as property of the United States.

So how about some ideas on how to fight this law, and others being made, or already made? What do we have to stand on? Why should we be able to do what we want to do? Anyone with some law experience want to chime in and suggest a route, or maybe a way to prove to the government that we should be able to legally dig in the dirt, and either keep what we find, or even be reimbursed for our find like they do in the U.K.?

 

[mariner]

Ivan,

So which Oregon statute supposedly gives them such power? I am aware of the statutes protecting genuine archaeological sites, but I don't think there is anything stopping you from detecting on private land, or on our beaches, which are all publicly owned.

Mariner

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Oh yea, watch that they don't include historical sites and artifacts as well, this would include fossils and shark teeth.

They put a blanket cover on everything with this language...
"treasure trove, artifacts, sunken or abandoned ships, or other objects having historical or archaeological value."

 

[Dimeman]

18 (1)(a) Any person who by means other than excavation either
19 conducts archaeological field investigations on, or removes or
20 attempts to remove, or defaces, destroys, or otherwise alters
21 any archaeological site or specimen located upon, any land,
22 including state sovereignty submerged land, owned or controlled
23 by the state, a political subdivision, or a special district
24 created by the Legislature, or within the boundaries of a
25 designated state archaeological landmark or landmark zone,
26 except in the course of activities pursued under the authority
27 of a permit or under procedures relating to accredited
28 institutions granted by the division, commits a misdemeanor of
29 the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s.
30 775.083, and, in addition, shall forfeit to the state all
31 specimens, objects, and materials collected, together with all
32 photographs and records relating to such material.

******************************************************

Line 21 folks---------------It states any "site or speciman located upon ANY LAND ".... or "within the boundries of" archaeological sites..............is owned by the State and you can't dig unless you are permitted by the state to do so.. Just like Texas.............

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Ivan,

So which Oregon statute supposedly gives them such power? I am aware of the statutes protecting genuine archaeological sites, but I don't think there is anything stopping you from detecting on private land, or on our beaches, which are all publicly owned.

Mariner

"A person may not knowingly and intentionally excavate, injure, destroy or alter an archaeological site or object on public or private lands without first obtaining an archaeological permit, according to a series of state laws. The one pertaining to private lands is Oregon Administrative Rule 736-051-0090."

So "or object on public or private lands" pretty much covers it.

 

[signumops]

Dimeman:
The 'any land', has been stricken from the amended statute. For now. Now just everything else.

 

[ScubaFinder]

As soon as this legislation passes, I say we ALL get our detectors and meet on the State Capital Lawn for a seeded hunt! I'll throw in some goodies for that one, and I'll bring my friends at Channel 11 News. :-D

 

[Twisted One]

As soon as this legislation passes, I say we ALL get our detectors and meet on the State Capital Lawn for a seeded hunt! I'll throw in some goodies for that one, and I'll bring my friends at Channel 11 News. :-D

Tonight's Channel 11 news report, "Today roughly 50 metal detectorist were arrested on the Florida state capitols front lawn. It appears one would be treasure hunter found a 1961 dime, as he showed it off to fellow enthusiast, he was tasered by local archaeologist that was heard screaming, "mine mine mine!", the person that recovered the historic dime was then arrested by an unknown federal government entity, shoved into the back of an armored SUV, and has yet to be heard from again.

 

[jeff of pa]

WWATS
Worldwide association of Treasure Seekers

http://www.wwats.org/

FMDAC
Federation of Metal Detector and Archaeological Clubs Inc.

http://fmdac2.org/

 

[mariner]

Thanks Au,

I had forgoten for the moment how strictly that all reads, perhaps because Oregon doesn't push the issue as strongly as Florida. I should have remembered because I had a big argument about it with Oregon's previous State Archaeologist, now thankfully retired.

I have a copy of an opinion sought from Oregon's Attorney General a couple of years ago about whether coins from a large cache of coins would all be regarded as "archaeological objects", and the wording suggests that they would not.

Mariner

 

[ivan salis]

oregon's treasure trove law covers any treasure trove over 30 years old -- once again any i say -- sure they might not be currently using them "but" they are on the books * where if they want to "legally" hose you out of your finds they can .-- I say do not let them put such BS laws --"on the books" in the first place --do not let them 'grab " that much power for themselves -power corrupts , absolute power corrupts absolutely .

 

[mariner]

Ivan,

Oregon repealed its Treasure Trove laws over ten years ago.

Mariner