question for all the archies

[onfire]

happening to be walking past a major constuction site in new Berlin, Racine and hy E where they are wasting a ton of money on a unneeded over pass, and just by luck found a interesting arrow head. Now knowing the law I had to leave it there,but my QUESTION is can this be halted because of a possible dig site? Or is this a possible archie dig with backhoes? AND WHAT ABOUT ALL THE PIPES THAT ARE 50 OR MORE YEARS OLDER.tHIS QUESTION MAY BE AS STUPID AS THE LAW YOUR TRYING TO SHOVE UP OUR %#@....jm

 

[Drache]

From what I understand, there is supposed to be quick search by archies in the area before anything is built if there is belief of something to be there. Course our laws might be different.

 

[Goodyguy]

This information should be communicated to your state Archaeologist. Who will send a team to ascertain if any Native American burials (remains) are present.

Construction will be halted until confirmation and the OK is given by the state Archaeologist. Unless the site has already been approved.

However, if bones (remains) are discovered the construction in that area must halt immediately.

 

[Drache]

This information should be communicated to your state Archaeologist. Who will send a team to ascertain if any native American burials are present.

Construction will be halted until confirmation and the OK is given by the state Archaeologist. Unless the site has already been approved.

However, if bones are discovered the construction must cease immediately.

thanks for the info!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I don't know about where you're at, but where I'm at, they require an "environmental impact report" (E.I.R.). A sub-section of the E.I.R. is a section where the contractor has to list a paid-for-study of the cultural heritge (or whatever it's called) impact report. That would be if there is any known historically sensitive sites there. But where I'm at, if there WERE any historically sensitive sites present, and the contractor feared this, he would merely hire what's called a "customer friendly" archaeologist, who will..... with a nod and a wink, "not find" anything there. Gee, what do you know, nothing here of any value! Let the bull-dozers progress!

I've seen this first hand! A site SO sensitive (a CA mission asistencia site) that an archie was required by the bureaucrats to be on-site during the whole process, so that if something that might cause the project to stop, were found, they would be there to say so. The archie they hired was one of these "customer friendly archies", who just stood their, drank coffee, and occasionally fullfilled their role by picking up and looking at a rock now and then. They "never found anything" and let the project proceed. Meanwhile, we'd go there each night after shift, and found reales, buttons, etc,.... Now the top soil has been hauled away, and rest is under asphalt, fill-dirt, etc... Good thing I have a few momentos for the future generation. My great great great grandkids will read the captions on the packaging of the relics I found, and they will perhaps find their way in to future museums. Hey, maybe it will be a moment captured for the future generations about "customer friendly archies" vs "metal detector hobbyists who simply waited till after 5pm"? Good thing we existed, eh? I still recall the look of the contractor who turned a blind eye when he saw us out there. He just said "if you find anything, just keep it mum, because the LAST thing we want, is the site shut down".

 

[Drache]

Of course we are all thinking that no test has been done. A test might have been done and nothing found and so the gave the go ahead.

The OP stated that they only found a single arrowhead, could have just been a random drop....

 

[deepskyal]

Buttons, coins and other common knickknacks are niffty-neat to find, but do not hold enough historical significance to detain construction. If these trinkets are all one has to offer to "prove" one to be a "customer friendly" archaeologist, or that a site is historically significant, then they don't have much of a leg to stand on.

Mob mentality is so overrated.

Not being an archie, I can't say for sure what is and isn't considered significant. They recently did a study in an area just a few miles from me where they plan on putting a new bridge over a valley.
The archies did their dig, found old pottery schards and tool pieces from natives that lived there ages ago, then determined it wasn't significant enough to warrent stopping the new bridge.

From the sounds of their discription, the items they found were many feet underground.

I'd just like to see what their guidelines are when it comes to "Historic Significance". A possible 1000 year old Indian village or some 200 year old bullets in the ground. They erect monuments to empty fields and post them off limits, yet ignore evidence of the peoples that once lived in the area. They'll post an old oil boom town (ghost town) off limits that has nothing to show but a manicured field with basement holes filled in and mowed but where the Whiskey Rebellion site was is now a housing plan....go figure.

The bridge they're building is replacing an old, detereorated bridge and when you think about it, where else are they going to build the new bridge except right near the old one so the roads can connect with minimum expense. Village or no, the bridge must go on.

And you can bet your last buck that had it been me that discovered all those Indian artifacts, put them in my bag and walked off...I'd have been arrested for looting a "Historic Site".

I think you are right Tom....customer friendly archies.

Al

 

[fmerg]

about 40 miles north of me is an old indian flint mine from what i have been told it is one of the only flint mines on the east coast
the state blasted about 2 thirds of the hill away and put up a prison
the site was a known historical site

 

[Goodyguy]

Village or no, the bridge must go on.

And you can bet your last buck that had it been me that discovered all those Indian artifacts, put them in my bag and walked off...I'd have been arrested for looting a "Historic Site".

I think you are right Tom....customer friendly archies.

Al

There is definitely a double standard when it comes to what is considered to be archaeologically significant.

 

[Philvis]

If it is state or federal funds, an archaeological phase I survey must be conducted, unless there are already known sites on the property. If that is the case a phase II or III survey must be done. Short of a major discovery (and I am not talking about a burial either) usually construction will not cease. There may be a temporary speed bump in operations but construction will continue. I was working on a project in Richmond where they were building the 288 hwy. We came across a slave/freed slave cemetery. I surveyed around 45-60 burials. The land owners tried to get the NAACP out to fight for teh historic significance of the site, but nothing ever came of it. 288 continued to be built. In fact if I remember correctly, more of the highway was diverted onto the landowner's land after that incident.

Very rarely does construction stop. A burial typically only delays construction, but archaeological survey's are done well ahead of construction in most instances, so delays are minor. If ground was already broken, an archaeological survey was completed. Finding a point will not impede that construction. If you have time it may be worthwhile to search the backdirt. Enjoy your artifact!

 

[Goodyguy]

Philvis,
Just wondering, What If those burials had been Native American and the local tribe got wind of it.
What do think would have happened then?

Goodyguy~

 

[Likely Guy]

A timely link: http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_thompson_nicola/kamloopsthisweek/news/42452827.html

(Kamloops is in south central British Columbia.)

 

[Philvis]

Philvis,
  Just wondering, What If those burials had been Native American and the local tribe got wind of it.
What do think would have happened then?

Goodyguy~

From my experience, most of the time the graves will be exhumed and the local tribe will have the rights to the remains.  There is always the chance the burial ground may be of significance, size wise.  They are usually the exception and not the rule. 

Native American burials are rare simply for the fact that most prehistoric burials are completely decomposed and no trace exists beyond their grave goods and possibly odd small bone.  Your typical bones like the femur last the longest simply for the fact they are the biggest and most dense, along with teeth.  Being burials were without coffins and placed directly in the ground, that speeds up the rate of decomposition.  In Virginia for example, much of our soil is red clay which is very acidic.  The odds of finding a burial that is 400 years old or older is very slim.  The soil just destroys the body too quickly.  Finding a burial is more likely to occur when the soil is neutral/sandy/well drained.  If moisture accumulates, the body will fully decompose and the bones will be obliterated.  One grave I excavated in a free black cemetery was probably around 130 years old.  The pressure of being 4-5 feet below the surface destroyed the coffin.  Only the nails were left.  There were only tiny remnants of the body left.  If you were out digging with a backhoe, you never would have known it was a burial.

Developers now seem to be in the business of burial relocating.  It is very hard to stop an 8 lane highway from coming through.

 

[Goodyguy]

Thank you Philvis,

I appreciate your taking the time to respond, T-Net is fortunate to have professional people like yourself as members.

Some times I am not clear enough in my statements and I am glad you are there to clear up any misconceptions I may have left.

Here is a link showing construction being halted due to finding skeletal remains.
www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/SkeletalRemainsHaltConstruction

This is only one example there are many, many, more.

Goodyguy~

 

[deepskyal]

And in the news today....The valley Tribune Review.
Bethel....."Input sought on plan to replace bridge."

PennDot will seek public input Wednesday on it's preliminary plans to replace a bridge on Route 66 over Taylor Run. Anyone who (has) knowledge of historic resources in the project area or anyone having comments on the possible impact of the project with historic resources, should attend the meeting.

This is a different bridge from the one I spoke of in the earlier post, but illistrates how low priority "historic significance" can be. Just a tiny article on the back pages of the newspaper.

I will concede, on the other bridge, they did do the evaluation over a year in advance, "just in case" something was found. But again, who is going to stop a major highway project? What's evidence of a long past Indian village mean anyhow? It's not like some civil war battle was fought there, right?

Al

 

[Philvis]

Thank you Philvis,

I appreciate your taking the time to respond, T-Net is fortunate to have professional people like yourself as members.

Some times I am not clear enough in my statements and I am glad you are there to clear up any misconceptions I may have left.

Here is a link showing construction being halted due to finding skeletal remains.
www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/SkeletalRemainsHaltConstruction

This is only one example there are many, many, more.

Goodyguy~

No problem Goodyguy. I appreciate your kind words. I have the bad habit of skim reading sometimes since I am usually at work. I guess I should rephrase what I said in all honesty. Coming across skeletal remains will always halt construction. Remains ending construction is the rarity. I apologize if I misspoke on that one. There are always exceptions of course.

 

[sfinder]

These are the only Archies I know...