Question for dowsers

[ClonedSIM]

"Close your eyes, throw a tennis ball up as high as you can, and do the exact same thing wherever it ends up at."

Quite amazingly, AF's suggestion has gotten back to what this thread was originally about: comparing dowsed selections to random selections.

Why not try it, Art?

Why not do controlled field comparisons of dowsing vs non-dowsing?

What is there to lose?

- Carl

Why not do a controlled field comparison of your ball throwing vs. random chance?
EX:
50 ft. square area ("field")....one unknown object 6" in diameter....buried somewhere in the named field.
What are the odds of you landing that sucker within 5 inches of the object?
What are the "Random Chance" odds?
What is the "probability theory" on that?

Well, let's see. I'm assuming by 50 ft. square area you mean a 50' by 50' area, or 2500 square feet. An object that is 6" by 6" would fit into a square foot four times. Using that, a 6" by 6" object would fit into a 50' by 50' area 10,000 times without overlapping.

You'd have a 1-in-10,000 chance of the tennis ball landing on your target.

But this really has nothing to do with the coversation at hand.

What I'd like to see measured is the amount of gold Art can extract from a dowsed spot versus a non-dowsed (random) spot.

Here's my reasoning. Art says he hunts in gold-bearing locations using his rods. When he gets a good signal, he extracts an amount of dirt, processes this dirt, then credits the gold he's found to his dowsing. So what if he tossed a ball over his shoulder, extracts the same amount of dirt from wherever that ball lands, and processes this dirt in the same fashion.

Would he have no gold, more gold or less gold from the second random location?

 

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[aarthrj3811]

Here is a real test for you….This tree is a marked tree with something buried under it. The cord. of the road is 39 01.126N X 119 40.698W..This morning I found a nest of rattlesnakes under the tree so you can have it if you want it….Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Here is a real test for you….This tree is a marked tree with something buried under it. The cord. of the road is 39 01.126N X 119 40.698W..This morning I found a nest of rattlesnakes under the tree so you can have it if you want it….Art

How is this a test, and what does it have to do with the conversation at hand?

Here:

What I'd like to see measured is the amount of gold Art can extract from a dowsed spot versus a non-dowsed (random) spot.

Here's my reasoning. Art says he hunts in gold-bearing locations using his rods. When he gets a good signal, he extracts an amount of dirt, processes this dirt, then credits the gold he's found to his dowsing. So what if he tossed a ball over his shoulder, extracts the same amount of dirt from wherever that ball lands, and processes this dirt in the same fashion.

Would he have no gold, more gold or less gold from the second random location?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Here's my reasoning. Art says he hunts in gold-bearing locations using his rods. When he gets a good signal, he extracts an amount of dirt, processes this dirt, then credits the gold he's found to his dowsing. So what if he tossed a ball over his shoulder, extracts the same amount of dirt from wherever that ball lands, and processes this dirt in the same fashion.

How many times do you have to be told….Just because someone found gold in an area it does not mean that every square foot of the area has gold in it….Talk to some people who have prospected for gold….I am sure they will tell you the same things that I have.
Now tell me how much material I would have to dig if I tossed a tennis ball over my shoulder to prove there was no gold at that spot? I have dug gold at 1 inch. I have dug gold at 2 ½ feet. I have walked away from gold that was at 30 feet…..Since you have no idea of how to process gold you have no idea of the time evolved. When you process Gold you pan it when you have time and save the concentrations. Then you run the cons through a blue bowl or some sort of mini sluice. Then when the weather gets bad you process the cons with a tumbler and mercury or a leaching of some kind.
If I did prove that there was no gold where the tennis ball landed you would not believe me…Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

Be nice to them. Just another of God's creatures. I remember some guy telling me how he encountered and killed a rattler, "I could see he was eeevil." like some church minister. I told him that snake is only trying to survive..to see the next sunset. I could do a lecture about one or two people on this forum but it would get deleted.

Hey Mike…Forty years ago I would have poured gas on the tree and burned them out of there. Now that I am older and I hope wiser the tree belongs to them. I may go back there when the temperature gets around 110 and see if any of them are in the shade but right now I don’t think I will….Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Here's my reasoning. Art says he hunts in gold-bearing locations using his rods. When he gets a good signal, he extracts an amount of dirt, processes this dirt, then credits the gold he's found to his dowsing. So what if he tossed a ball over his shoulder, extracts the same amount of dirt from wherever that ball lands, and processes this dirt in the same fashion.

How many times do you have to be told….Just because someone found gold in an area it does not mean that every square foot of the area has gold in it….Talk to some people who have prospected for gold….I am sure they will tell you the same things that I have.
Now tell me how much material I would have to dig if I tossed a tennis ball over my shoulder to prove there was no gold at that spot? I have dug gold at 1 inch. I have dug gold at 2 ½ feet. I have walked away from gold that was at 30 feet…..Since you have no idea of how to process gold you have no idea of the time evolved. When you process Gold you pan it when you have time and save the concentrations. Then you run the cons through a blue bowl or some sort of mini sluice. Then when the weather gets bad you process the cons with a tumbler and mercury or a leaching of some kind.
If I did prove that there was no gold where the tennis ball landed you would not believe me…Art

So follow my quote. Dig a spot you've dowsed, and dig the exact same amount from the tennis ball landing spot. If you find gold at three inches the first time with half a buck of dirt, then try to do the same with the ball dig. Granted, if you have to dig 3 or 4 feet down, I would say wait for a shallower hole.

We're just trying to create duplicate conditions for one dowsed dig and one random dig.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey AF….I did find a spot today that indicates to me that there is a lot of nuggets in the area. I saw one claim marker on the hill above this place. Next time I am in Reno I will go to BLM and see if this spot has an active claim filed on it. If I should decide to look for nuggets again I will try your tennis ball experiment and report back to the forum but don’t hold your breath until I get around to it…..Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Hey AF….I did find a spot today that indicates to me that there is a lot of nuggets in the area. I saw one claim marker on the hill above this place. Next time I am in Reno I will go to BLM and see if this spot has an active claim filed on it. If I should decide to look for nuggets again I will try your tennis ball experiment and report back to the forum but don’t hold your breath until I get around to it…..Art

Well, I appreciate that, Art. Thank you.

And I promise that no skeptics here will doubt your results. I'll make sure of it.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey AF…When you dig an empty hole. You should spread the dirt that you dug on a piece of plastic. Check for a beep. Separate that dirt from the rest of the dirt. Keep doing this until you have narrowed it down to a small area. Take this small sample home and find out what you were getting the beep from. Iron is easy as a magnet will pull that from your sample. Silver is not to important as it is not worth much. Gold is what is important. This is how I get all the gold from my samples.

Cleaning your cons

I pan and remove all the gold you can see and bring everything else home. I screen every thing with 25, 50 and 100 mesh keeping them in separate buckets. I save the plus 25 mesh for later if my rods show that there is gold in it. I then soak the cons with vinegar ( it's cheap at Sam's Club.) for three days stirring it when ever I think of it.

I run it thought the blue bowl starting with the 25 mesh lowering the water level for each size collecting the gold as I go. I now have all the cons back in one bucket. I now take my hot plate outside ( the heat range dial goes from 1-7 and I have it at 3 1/2 ) and using a pyrex bowl dry it and dump each batch into a tub of cold water ( cracks the cons )

The next step I used a cement mixer when I was getting large amounts of cons from my big Dredges but now I use a rock tumbler. I put each batch in the tumbler with 4 half inch stainless steel ball bearings and turn it for two days ( more or less ) then add Mercury for another day. When I have all the cons back in a bucket I go back to the Blue Bowl.

I run it at a high water level and then at the lowest water level collecting the gold-mercury in snuffer bottles saving all the black sand. I pour all the gold-mercury into a newer pan ( the least amount of scratches ) working it with a small amount of water to bring all the mercury together taking the black sand out as I go. Using PLASTIC GLOVES I put a piece of fine silk over a pan and pour the gold-mercury into it. Grabbing the silk by the sides you can squish the excess mercury out of the silk saving the mercury for next year. You now dump the stuff in the silk into your pyrex bowl.

I then load my PU. I take a potable generator, hot plate, jugs of water, gold-mercury, saftey mask, Nitric acid and the remaining black sand go to a friends 20 acres of isolated land. I set everything up, start the generator, put on my mask, pour the nitric acid into the bowl and walk away for a 1/2 hour. When I return I fill the bowl with water and let it cool. I pour the water into a safe container and collect my gold. I then dry all the black sand to burn off any mercury that may be on it.

This is a long process but when it's raining and cold I set in the garage with a heater and drink a few beers while I run the blue bowl. My rods show me that there is still some gold in the black sand so I will crush it and start over.

 

[aarthrj3811]

This is an interesting list…..And you say the only way we find anything is by random chance….Just because it beeps does not make it a find…Art

since 10/3/07
halves 2
quarters 45
dimes 43
nickles 32
pennies 225
foriegn coins 8
wheats 9
buffalos 1
mercs 1
siver coins 2
40% silvers 6
gold items 3
rings 6
pull tabs 9,976,842.715

 

[ClonedSIM]

This is an interesting list…..And you say the only way we find anything is by random chance….Just because it beeps does not make it a find…Art

since 10/3/07
halves 2
quarters 45
dimes 43
nickles 32
pennies 225
foriegn coins 8
wheats 9
buffalos 1
mercs 1
siver coins 2
40% silvers 6
gold items 3
rings 6
pull tabs 9,976,842.715

You do know the 9 million + pull tabs is a joke, right?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey AF….I know that….But what are the chances that he would find what he is looking for. You keep saying we do no better than random chance and dig a lot of empty holes. To me if you dig something you don’t want it is an empty hole. If I am looking for gold I find gold. If I am looking for silver I find silver…My rods don’t cross unless what I am looking for is there. I am not putting down metal detectors as I know how they operate. Just don’t come in here and tell me how perfect they are when I know better. Heck ..Carl just did a test where he was 7 for 7 for trash. Those are not good odds…I read almost daily about problems people are having...Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Hey AF….I know that….But what are the chances that he would find what he is looking for. You keep saying we do no better than random chance and dig a lot of empty holes. To me if you dig something you don’t want it is an empty hole. If I am looking for gold I find gold. If I am looking for silver I find silver…My rods don’t cross unless what I am looking for is there. I am not putting down metal detectors as I know how they operate. Just don’t come in here and tell me how perfect they are when I know better. Heck ..Carl just did a test where he was 7 for 7 for trash. Those are not good odds…I read almost daily about problems people are having...Art

Art, you need to read this thread again. Carl was not testing the properties of the metal detector when it came to finding gold or silver. All he was doing to looking to see if 7 random spots, determined by the toss of the tennis balls, contained any type of object. I'm certain he would had ignored these particular spots if he was detecting for valuables.

Although this "To me if you dig something you don’t want it is an empty hole." is a really good thought.

 

[aarthrj3811]

All he was doing to looking to see if 7 random spots, determined by the toss of the tennis balls, contained any type of object

If that’s what you think that’s ok with me….Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

All he was doing to looking to see if 7 random spots, determined by the toss of the tennis balls, contained any type of object

If that’s what you think that’s ok with me….Art

Here:
I randomly tossed 7 tennis balls in my back yard, then used a metal detector to determine how far from each tennis ball a piece of metal was buried.

This is from one of Carl's posts earlier in the thread.

How do you interpret this sentence?

 

[aarthrj3811]

This is more for dowsers...

If you dowse a location, then use a metal detector to check the location, how far out from the dowsed spot would you metal detect and still consider it a successful dowse? That is, would a 1-foot radius be acceptable? 2 feet? I'm sure different dowsers have different standards.

Although I've always been curious about this, I am asking because of a particular conversation I'm having with a new dowser.

So, with 7 attempts and 5 of them having a metal target within 14 inches, do these results indicate an ability to dowse? Or was it luck?

The purpose of the tennis balls is just to randomly toss them out, and see if anything is buried at the spots where they land. It's a way of comparing his dowsing to random selection.

Gee AF….I wonder why I am thinking different than you…Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Art, once again you have confused yourself. And you even started this conversation!

Here.

Art said: "Carl just did a test where he was 7 for 7 for trash. Those are not good odds."

af1733 said: "Carl was not testing the properties of the metal detector when it came to finding gold or silver. All he was doing to looking to see if 7 random spots, determined by the toss of the tennis balls, contained any type of object. I'm certain he would had ignored these particular spots if he was detecting for valuables."

Art said: "If that’s what you think that’s ok with me."

You started an argument where your stance was based on a misunderstanding of the purpose of this thread. You mistakenly thought Carl was out hunting for valuables and mocked his finds of trash when, in fact, all he was doing was trying to determine the distance any metal object might lie from a tossed tennis ball. His experiment did not involve the quality of finds, but only the quantity and distance from the ball markers. You are completely incorrect, Art and what's worse is you don't even seem to know why.

 

[aarthrj3811]

You started an argument where your stance was based on a misunderstanding of the purpose of this thread. You mistakenly thought Carl was out hunting for valuables and mocked his finds of trash when, in fact, all he was doing was trying to determine the distance any metal object might lie from a tossed tennis ball. His experiment did not involve the quality of finds, but only the quantity and distance from the ball markers. You are completely incorrect, Art and what's worse is you don't even seem to know why.

Gee Af…I am not misunderstanding anything. What does throwing a tennis ball to locate trash have to do with Dowsing….Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

You started an argument where your stance was based on a misunderstanding of the purpose of this thread. You mistakenly thought Carl was out hunting for valuables and mocked his finds of trash when, in fact, all he was doing was trying to determine the distance any metal object might lie from a tossed tennis ball. His experiment did not involve the quality of finds, but only the quantity and distance from the ball markers. You are completely incorrect, Art and what's worse is you don't even seem to know why.

Gee Af…I am not misunderstanding anything. What does throwing a tennis ball to locate trash have to do with Dowsing….Art

Okay, so you don't understand the thread. Why didn't you just say that in the first place? I mean, you're in here voicing your opinion, but you don't even know what is being discussed? I personally don't feel like explaining it again. Carl did great the first time. Pretend it makes no sense to you and if you wish real hard maybe, just maybe, it'll come true someday!

 

[aarthrj3811]

Okay, so you don't understand the thread. Why didn't you just say that in the first place? I mean, you're in here voicing your opinion, but you don't even know what is being discussed? I personally don't feel like explaining it again. Carl did great the first time. Pretend it makes no sense to you and if you wish real hard maybe, just maybe, it'll come true someday!

Hey AF…Have you ever considered the fact that it may be you that doesn’t understand what is being disscussed?...Art