i know alot of you have been to the mine above 2nd water...there is a shaft that goes down in a zig zag path..if you would like to hear the story of how it came to be like that let me know..my old partner is the one that sank the shaft
i know alot of you have been to the mine above 2nd water...there is a shaft that goes down in a zig zag path..if you would like to hear the story of how it came to be like that let me know..my old partner is the one that sank the shaft
i met warren back in the 80's...we were involved in a couple mining projects together...him and his partner bruce had met a man named obie stoker in the late 70's..obie told them a tale about him and his wife finding a tunnel above second water spring...the tunnel went in the mountain about 300 foot..then it opened up into a big cavern...18 ft in diameter..whoever had worked the mine back in the day had hit a lense or pocket and it opened up big...obie told warren one wall of the cavern was a 18 ft thick quartz vein.How in the heck did he keep it cleared out or get anything into/out of it? Spit 'er out Pard!
marius...i wasn't in on the project with these guys...i never met obie and bruce...i only knew warren....this is the story that warren told me....but i never heard warren talk about any maps...although warren did think the question mark mine was the ldm...he got that idea from obie....i can tell you one thing though...warren had complete faith in obie....up until the day he died he believed everything obie told him...and obie never told him about following a map..he just stumbled onto the mine tunnel back in the 30'sHi Dave
I want from you to be honest for this question: Obie and your friends did follow a lost Ruth's map?
I have the impression how they did, but in the wrong place and with a bad interpretation of the clues given in the map.
marius...i wasn't in on the project with these guys...i never met obie and bruce...i only knew warren....this is the story that warren told me....but i never heard warren talk about any maps...although warren did think the question mark mine was the ldm...he got that idea from obie....i can tell you one thing though...warren had complete faith in obie....up until the day he died he believed everything obie told him...and obie never told him about following a map..he just stumbled onto the mine tunnel back in the 30's
Then, Obie didn't tell all the truth to Warren. Obie was searching for the " knob " mine which was mentioned in Erwin Ruth's clue. Is the same mine with Not Peralta's mine. This mine was depited in a lost Adolph Ruth's map and in a Grijalva stone map.
Not Peralta believed too how this mine was the LDM but IMO it's not. This mine don't fits the descriptions given by Waltz and Reed about the region and the shaft. This is the only mine where the gold vein starts on a wall in a cave.
Now read the similarities between the Obie's clues and the " knob " mine. The knob at its base measure about 300 feet long and is about 50 feet high. The volcanic buble on its top, which has the cave inside, measure about 18 feet in diameter and the gold vein in the cave's wall is about one foot large.
The 30's era was a continuous quest for what the lost Gonzales-Ruth maps could lead to.
Then, Obie didn't tell all the truth to Warren. Obie was searching for the " knob " mine which was mentioned in Erwin Ruth's clue. Is the same mine with Not Peralta's mine. This mine was depited in a lost Adolph Ruth's map and in a Grijalva stone map.
Not Peralta believed too how this mine was the LDM but IMO it's not. This mine don't fits the descriptions given by Waltz and Reed about the region and the shaft. This is the only mine where the gold vein starts on a wall in a cave.
Now read the similarities between the Obie's clues and the " knob " mine. The knob at its base measure about 300 feet long and is about 50 feet high. The volcanic buble on its top, which has the cave inside, measure about 18 feet in diameter and the gold vein in the cave's wall is about one foot large.
The 30's era was a continuous quest for what the lost Gonzales-Ruth maps could lead to.
Marius, I don't recall ever hearing Obie Stoker was searching for a knob mine or anything to do with a Ruth map? Not that I know or care all that much about maps...as you know...I'm sure Joe knows just about every detail of what Obie was doing, hopefully he will weigh in.
marius...the vein didn't actually start on the wall....it was a pocket where the original vein opened up ...it is very common in arizona mining...the vein will get larger and form pockets...some very large...then the vein will pinch down again and maybe another 30 ft open up again...whoever started the tunnel was probably following a vein maybe a foot or so in diameter and hit the jackpot when it opened up....another tidbit that i always thought shed a bit of truth on obie's story was that a pretty well known treasure hunter by the name of burbridge found some gold bars at second water spring..i always thought the gold came from that mine...one more thing warren showed me ...directly across from the mine are some carvings on top of a hill..old and kinda hard to read but there was a turtle carved on a big flat rock...and also 2 foot prints...if you stood at the back of one of the prints and looked straight ahead to where it points..it points directly at obie's mine....the other footprint pointed to a mine up high on the cliffs of battleship mountain ...obie said it was a silver mine and that he had found silver mule shoes on top of battle ship mountain...the last time i was at the carvings some puke had busted off one of the footprints carved in the flat rock
I believe the "?" mine was an old prospect hole started by an Anglos after 1890. Maybe by Chunning? There was never a 300 feet tunnel IMO. The Spanish/Mexicans who worked gold mines in the Supers, didn't dig their mines more than 30-40 feet deep. These are the deeps of those mines found by the few Anglos.
Perhaps you are right, Marius. Who knows how many different people worked that particular hole and for how long? I would imagine though that Obie knew what 300ft looked like.
marius...the vein didn't actually start on the wall....it was a pocket where the original vein opened up ...it is very common in arizona mining...the vein will get larger and form pockets...some very large...then the vein will pinch down again and maybe another 30 ft open up again...whoever started the tunnel was probably following a vein maybe a foot or so in diameter and hit the jackpot when it opened up....another tidbit that i always thought shed a bit of truth on obie's story was that a pretty well known treasure hunter by the name of burbridge found some gold bars at second water spring..i always thought the gold came from that mine...one more thing warren showed me ...directly across from the mine are some carvings on top of a hill..old and kinda hard to read but there was a turtle carved on a big flat rock...and also 2 foot prints...if you stood at the back of one of the prints and looked straight ahead to where it points..it points directly at obie's mine....the other footprint pointed to a mine up high on the cliffs of battleship mountain ...obie said it was a silver mine and that he had found silver mule shoes on top of battle ship mountain...the last time i was at the carvings some puke had busted off one of the footprints carved in the flat rock