Questions for the Experts

[ClonedSIM]

That's what is killing me, here. Why won't they at least attempt the challenge? What is there to lose? All they can come back with is, "Why don't you take the challenge?" or "The whole thing's rigged!" Waaaahh!!

1. I don't take the challenge because I use a metal detector, not rods or an LRL.
2. The challenge is not rigged in any way, that's just an excuse they use to avoid it.
3. The challenge can actually be dictated by the dowsers themselves, if they so chose and the challenge can be agreed upon by all parties. This is another point they constantly fail to respond to.
4. The challenge is set up in such a way to preclude the possibility of guessing to obtain the desired results. They take this to mean that the deck is stacked against them.
5. They try to claim that the challenge isn't scientific enough for them, but these guys are seldom bothered overly much by scientific methods in the first place, so that argument flies right out the window.

Just try it, guys! C'mon!

 

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[Sandsted]

Af, in response to the court thing, it was mentioned, maybe not by you, in another thread. And now you are going against your mentality that "it doesn't matter if it's scientific" as long as you win the million?

You can't restrain yourself from insulting and mocking others that don't have the same views as you, can you? I can't dowse when someone is testing me like that, I have tried before, I have had better results then just chance guessing. But I was wrong once, I lost confidence in myself, I couldn't dowse there after, I worked for a long time practicing basic things to be able to dowse again, I test myself, not in these 10 plate crap you do, I have pictures of different Viking artifacts. My uncle and people (who some are deceased now...) have studied previously to me, I don't have their studies, only two of them have written any books on the subject and they aren't published. Anyway, I can check to see if there is a ship here, I check their documents, if there is I'm right if there isn't I'm wrong. But I'm not under that pressure of being tested the way you so dearly love. BUT THAT'S JUST AN EXCUSE, heck if I lost both arms you'd call that an excuse too. I believe dowsing works, if you don't that doesn't really concern me, but if you have some proof that it doesn't then I'd like to see it so I am deceived no longer. You offer no proof, as Dell says, you heckle, insult, mock, and argue everyone out of here. These tests will proove nothing, you want proof that dowsing works? I give you my word, you don't trust that? Take some GOOD advice, study dowsing, learn the aspects of dowsing. Before every making a conclusion on a controversial subject YOU MUST study, deeply, both sides of the matter.

In the case of dowsing what study have you done? You have provided us with nothing to make us believe you have studied the matter. All you do is "heckle, insult, mock, and argue", you noticibly profess that.

Is there proof that dowsing doesn't work? No one has given any, I've looked and there are no scientific studies that prove it is impossible to do what dowsing does, there's not even a study that is attempting to find the evidence to disprove dowsing.

You may ask the reverse of my question, "Is there proof that dowsing works?" Ofcourse there is, there are millions of dowsers that can show you, that can prove to you. But heckling them, insulting and mocking them in an attempt to get them to submit to your challenges will get you no where.

You are so sure that dowsing doesn't work, so please provide me with your incredible knowledge.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Okay, Sandsted, I suppose you feel that by typing a lot of words, you have proven something, so let's take it apart piece by piece.

Af, in response to the court thing, it was mentioned, maybe not by you, in another thread. And now you are going against your mentality that "it doesn't matter if it's scientific" as long as you win the million?

I worked with several other people to come up with a challenge scenario that no one could argue was unscientific. When this was finally resolved, the dowsers here disregarded all of this and said the whole thing was just a scam for publicity. To which I responded that if the science doesn't matter, then do it for the cash. Read before you respond, Sandy.

You can't restrain yourself from insulting and mocking others that don't have the same views as you, can you? I can't dowse when someone is testing me like that, I have tried before, I have had better results then just chance guessing. But I was wrong once, I lost confidence in myself, I couldn't dowse there after, I worked for a long time practicing basic things to be able to dowse again, I test myself, not in these 10 plate crap you do, I have pictures of different Viking artifacts.

Once again, since you never bothered to respond before, if you fell off a bike the first time you tried to ride, would you never get back on again?

My uncle and people (who some are deceased now...) have studied previously to me, I don't have their studies, only two of them have written any books on the subject and they aren't published. Anyway, I can check to see if there is a ship here, I check their documents, if there is I'm right if there isn't I'm wrong.

But since you'll never bother to recover these amazing artifacts you've dowsed, you'll never know, will you? Just like so many other dowsers I've read the works of, there are troves of treasure they've located, but cannot recover for an endless number of reasons.

Take some GOOD advice, study dowsing, learn the aspects of dowsing. Before every making a conclusion on a controversial subject YOU MUST study, deeply, both sides of the matter.

Take your own advice here, Sandy. There is a challenge which will make you rich if you succeed and will "leave you deceived no more" if you fail. This would be studying both sides of the matter, and I can guarantee that if dowsing is shown to be a greater-that-chance proposal, I and thousands of others will take it up immediately.

In the case of dowsing what study have you done? You have provided us with nothing to make us believe you have studied the matter. All you do is "heckle, insult, mock, and argue", you noticibly profess that.

I've read every article I can lay my eyes on concerning dowsing, both pro and con, but I can't seem to find information on disinterested third party studies. Do you have this information? I'd like something without an angle on it, a study that does not lean towards or against, but rides the rail and simply states facts. Why do you think I side with Carl and Randi here? They are trying to gather this information, but with a noticeable lack of support from those that would benefit the most for this knowledge. (This means you and others here.)

Is there proof that dowsing doesn't work? No one has given any, I've looked and there are no scientific studies that prove it is impossible to do what dowsing does, there's not even a study that is attempting to find the evidence to disprove dowsing.

Umm, what do you think Carl and Randi are trying to do here? Have you actually been reading these posts?
And, it's been posted before but I'll repeat it here for your benefit, you cannot perform a scientific experiment to disprove something. Think about it. If you start an experiment with an outcome already in mind, the study will be skewed. You cannot have an expected result in mind if you expect to have a fair and true study. Otherwise, I could put out a report that I took two bent pieces of wire into my backyard and didn't find gold, so dowsing doesn't work. You wouldn't like that very much, would you?

You may ask the reverse of my question, "Is there proof that dowsing works?" Ofcourse there is, there are millions of dowsers that can show you, that can prove to you. But heckling them, insulting and mocking them in an attempt to get them to submit to your challenges will get you no where.

So, offering up a million bucks isn't enough to submit to a challenge? Then you are a rock, Sandy, and no amount of money or fame or exposure of your passion to the world can make you act on this.

 

[ClonedSIM]

You know what, Sandy? Let me put this much more simply. If I claimed to possess a skill that Randi accepted for testing (telekinesis, ESP, dowsing) and I had faith in my abilities, then I would be the first in line to take that million home with me. In fact, if I possessed any of these skills, then I probably wouldn't need the million, but I'd take the test just for fun.
This is the point a lot of people here are missing. If you have these skills, and you believe in them, and you prove them to yourself day-in and day-out, then you can pass any test put in front of you. And why not? If you've found a Viking ship 20 feet underground, and you were able to date the ship and even identify some of the items on the ship, then why not a gold bar under a plate?

 

[ClonedSIM]

Af1733, over and over again, you keep telling others what you would do, if you were them. You are not them. You can learn to Dowse the same as any of us, and take the tests yourself. Nobody is stopping you. So, get over your Jealousy of others, and do something yourself, beside btch'n, ranting, and complaining about others.

You need to get a life of your own. If posting dictatorial , "if I were you," comments and senseless arguing is your life, you will require help from a different type of mental analyst.

We practice Dowsing for treasure and geophysical data. We are not qualified, or licensed to help you with your problem. Please don't impose your complaints about about what Dowsers, are supposed to do, and not supposed to do. It's none of your business. Dell

I am not, nor have I ever been, jealous of a dowser. You are a self-delusional bunch with visions of grandeur. You have no desire to accept that there is no logical or scientific reason why dowsing would work, and have fooled yourselves into believing that your hobby is something more than it is.
To say that I require help from an analyst of some sort is the sort of comment I would expect from you when you know you've been bested. I am more intelligent then the lot of you put together, but what especially makes me stand head and shoulders above is my ability to process information on several levels simultaneously. I can see the thought processes behind your words, and the meanings of the words themselves, and can glean the true content of your stories.
I have never complained about what dowsers are supposed to do, but I have commented on several occasions on what you could do to be taken seriously, which you currently are not.
You honestly believe you leave people in awe when you tell them about large veins of gold that you found, but can't dig up. This is untrue.
You honestly believe that there is a huge conspiracy surrounding the challenges being discussed here. This is also untrue.
You honestly believe that if you were to take the challenge, you would fail. This is correct. Not because the tests are rigged, but because you cannot do as you say. If this were the case, you would be recognized and lauded worldwide for your dowsing prowess.

We practice Dowsing for treasure and geophysical data. We are not qualified, or licensed to help you with your problem. Please don't impose your complaints about about what Dowsers, are supposed to do, and not supposed to do. It's none of your business. Dell

This is where you are completely incorrect. This is a public forum. Anyone has the right to register and post here. These posts caught my attention because of an utter cohesion when it comes to dowsers. An excuse for every occasion. If you truly dislike someone that doesn't believe in dowsing responding to your posts, the you shouldn't create posts that invite such responses.
If you're tired of defending yourself, then stop...

 

[Sandsted]

"But since you'll never bother to recover these amazing artifacts you've dowsed, you'll never know, will you? Just like so many other dowsers I've read the works of, there are troves of treasure they've located, but cannot recover for an endless number of reasons."

These artifacts are recovered, but you would never know about them because nobody will study them. You can't find a photo of a mooring stone on the internet, the ancor stone is sitting at the Kensington Community center, it exists. It is not a figment of my immagination and neither are the results of my dowsing.

There are halberds, axes, spear tips, fire steels, altar rocks, altar stones, boat hooks, sukker-saks, rune stones, mooring stones, ancor stones, stones ovens, rock carvings, fortified walls, stone cellars, and thousands more different artifacts all of non-native american origin.

And you know what, a lot of that was found through dowsing, and there is a lot more found with dowsing. There are ships but they will have been completely rotted back to dirt, but one spot there is a ship and now in the last year or...a few years ago I'm not exactly sure they plowed it and put in a corn field there. Where the ship is the corn will not grow very well at all. You can see the outline of the ship in the corn.

The same thing happened on the paved road near Bob Berg's home, a change in tempeture and humidity caused more condensation over top of the ship and you can see the beautiful outline of what side of it on the street, he had marked out where the ship was before this happened also, that was in Orval Friedrich's book...I think the second one but don't have it right here.

I've never dowsed for treasure, it is not greed that drives my purpose for dowsing.

"Take your own advice here, Sandy. There is a challenge which will make you rich if you succeed and will "leave you deceived no more" if you fail."

I've told you at least five times, Af, that I can't dowse in a test like that. So why don't you stop being so ignorant and listen once.


"Quote from: Sandsted on Today at 12:15:20 AM
Is there proof that dowsing doesn't work? No one has given any, I've looked and there are no scientific studies that prove it is impossible to do what dowsing does, there's not even a study that is attempting to find the evidence to disprove dowsing.

Umm, what do you think Carl and Randi are trying to do here? Have you actually been reading these posts? "

THAT WON'T PROVE ANYTHING, it is a personal test. If one person fails you've proved that he couldn't dowse that day. By scientific what I meant was studying the science of it. Doing a test like that that I can not dowse in will not prove anything.

These tests will not prove or dis prove dowsing.

Prove to me dowsing doesn't work, or prove to me it does work, but don't do it with a challenge that I can't take.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Reply to Post # 51

You sure told him what to do....Things have been different since you were elected King of the forum. I just love all the Prove you have provided us. I love it when you are proved wrong and then you can twist and spin your way back to the top. You can not trust those Dowsers because they will not help you prove any of your points. In fact they probaly will object when you appoint yourself Super-Hero of he month.....Is this window dressing for all those guys that are real treasure hunters?/ White's XLT/BH 707

 

[ClonedSIM]

Reply to Post # 51

You sure told him what to do....Things have been different since you were elected King of the forum. I just love all the Prove you have provided us. I love it when you are proved wrong and then you can twist and spin your way back to the top. You can not trust those Dowsers because they will not help you prove any of your points. In fact they probaly will object when you appoint yourself Super-Hero of he month.....Is this window dressing for all those guys that are real treasure hunters?/ White's XLT/BH 707

Not only is this response lacking any valid points, you forgot to address your own personal battle cry.
"The Truth About Dowsing."
What it that, exactly? Care to fire up the ol' Wikipeida and define it?

 

[ClonedSIM]

You have no desire to accept that there is no logical or scientific reason why dowsing would work, Af1733

That's exactly what I have been saying. Read my posts. DOWSING IS A META-PHYSICAL ART. A MENTAL EXERCISE. There is no known logic except from the Skeptics, that it is an IDEOMOTOR RESPONSE. There is NO SCIENTIFIC reason why Dowsing would work, as far as I know. DOWSING IS NOT A SCIENCE.
DOWSING IS AN ART. Can you accept that? I Do.

You are totally on the wrong page. There is no argument, or debate from me about that, and never has been. No wonder you appear to be playing Science Loony Tunes.
Get Real! Dell

Okay, dowsing is an art. I can accept that. Do you want to go a step further and call it a religion? If it has no science or logic backing it's existence, then one must blindly accept that dowsing actually works, and acceptance requires faith. Religion requires faith. Ergo, dowsing is a religion.
And you're telling me to get real...

 

[Sandsted]

Af, you exercise faith in almost everything you do each day. Just because something requires faith and modern science can't support it DOES NOT MAKE IT A RELIGION.

Definition of religion, " set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

DOWSING IS NOT A RELIGION

 

[aarthrj3811]

If it has no science or logic backing it's existence, then one must blindly accept that dowsing actually works.

Gee AF....You seem to make every little word into some but deal. If you don't want to blindly accept that dowsing actually works thats your decision.You seem to want someone else to prove that you are making the right decision. I am sure some one as mentioned this before....Learn to Dowse and you will be in the dark..

 

[ClonedSIM]

If it has no science or logic backing it's existence, then one must blindly accept that dowsing actually works.

Gee AF....You seem to make every little word into some but deal. If you don't want to blindly accept that dowsing actually works thats your decision.You seem to want someone else to prove that you are making the right decision. I am sure some one as mentioned this before....Learn to Dowse and you will be in the dark..

You're right, Art. If I learn to dowse, I will be in the dark! *snicker*

 

[ClonedSIM]

If you don't want to blindly accept that dowsing actually works thats your decision.

Yeah…why can’t you blindly accept dowsing actually works, and you can locate tons and tons of gold from miles away with just bent coat hangers? What were you thinking! :::chortles:::

It's just silly old me, I guess! I mean, what would I do with tons of gold anyway?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Thanks for your concern...I know you guys worry about the tons and tons of gold we may locate. I will tell you something that I know for a fact..I will put together another pound of gold before you do. Not because of the equipment or chance luck or any of that garbage. The reason is that I research my locations and I know there will be gold at this location. How much is an unknown. But the main reason I know is that I am a Treasure hunter and no one is going to put it on my door step....Art

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Healing ... Only those dowsing practitioners in the UK can claim to and attempt to heal through dowsing legally. In the United States any such claim or attempt will result in federal charges of practicing medicine without a license. Legally all we can do is pray for you. Since all sceptics are without a prayer I rarely bother.
Art are you aware that you are using the same avatar as an unlamented missing dowsing sceptic named jblack? exanimo, ss

 

[aarthrj3811]

Thanks SS...It does look a little like one I saw before. I wouldn't want to make any waves here...The Doctor that cured my Dad of Polio is in jail for a fake Cancer Cure..Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

I was curious about the avatar too, Art. What gives?

 

[aarthrj3811]

unlamented missing dowsing sceptic

Hey AF...The key word is missing..Just a little reminder to the members that when you have expensive equipment you can hide you IP as easy as changing your avatar. Some people think it's funny to give out false information and then answer themselves to confirm the information.
For you non treasure hunters...Don't try it as you would not be good at treasure hunting. You need to understand what simple words like "no" means. When you research a story or tale you need a little faith that some of the information is correct. You will have to make decisions on whether to dig or not. To complicated for people who are not willing to spend a little time to learn how Dowsing works for them....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

unlamented missing dowsing sceptic

Hey AF...The key word is missing..Just a little reminder to the members that when you have expensive equipment you can hide you IP as easy as changing your avatar. Some people think it's funny to give out false information and then answer themselves to confirm the information.
For you non treasure hunters...Don't try it as you would not be good at treasure hunting. You need to understand what simple words like "no" means. When you research a story or tale you need a little faith that some of the information is correct. You will have to make decisions on whether to dig or not. To complicated for people who are not willing to spend a little time to learn how Dowsing works for them....Art

So, you changed your avatar as some sort of protest/activitist movement? And I see you've stopped referring to us as skeptics and we're non-treasure hunters, now. And what does this have to do with your avatar? Maybe you should boost your meds a little, Art. Might do wonders for you.

 

[aarthrj3811]

So, you changed your avatar as some sort of protest/activitist movement?

Did I say that or are you trying to twist my words ?

And I see you've stopped referring to us as skeptics and we're non-treasure hunters, now.

I will admit that there are a few non-treasure hunters on this forum who claim to be experts at how not to seek treasure. What do you mean by us....do you have a mouse in your pocket?

Maybe you should boost your meds a little, Art. Might do wonders for you.

I don't understand the your spin on that statement.