Rare 1787 Copper - DAMAGED! - Learn from my mistake

[Silver Fox]

I didn't really find this coin today, I found it many years ago in NYC's Central Park. It was obviously in dirt that had been transferred to the particular part of the park when they built the park in the late 1800s. Or, it could have been prior to when I found the coin.

I bring this to your attention because yesterday I received the APRIL 2008 issue of WESTERN & EASTERN TREASURES, the ANNUAL "BEST FINDS" issue. On page 30 it shows a 1787 "HERCULES HEAD" CONNECTICUT COPPER with a value of $2,500+ found by Brett Card. The coin looks pretty clean.

I looked in my goodies bag as I also had found a 1787 copper. I compared them and they're identical. When I found it and checked for value it wasn't worth $2,500 then. My coin doesn't have the clean detail Brett's does. It may have had the detail but I screwed up.

We all have the habit of wiping our found coins with our fingers or gloved fingers to see what we've found. This is not necessary as much with silver but any corroded item gets the wiping treatment. In actuality, one should just put whatever one finds in our goodies bag and, later at home, gently run the item(s) under water or let it soak or whatever but don't do it in the field!

When I found my copper it was just a round brown thing encased in hardened dirt. I gave it the rubbing treatment but that wasn't enough. When I got it home I scraped the hell out of it. You can see what I have left of a possible $2,500+ coin which would have possibly cleaned better than Brett's as you can still see the date on mine clearer than Brett's.

Every time I handle the coin and realize how stupid I was I want to kick myself in the butt. I have no idea how much my mutilated rare 1787 Connecticut Copper is worth or if it has any value.

Guys, gals, resist temptation and just put that coin away and just return to detecting with the thoughts that when you get home the satisfaction will be worth the wait.

Silver (oh, woe is me) Fox

 

[allen]

that is still a nice looking 220 year old coin...

 

[Montana Jim]

Metalfinder... yes... thats right.

Silver Fox... Thanks for the reply... and a lengthy one! It's just important we don't foster that here, and I reacted... well written response and I appreciate the time you took replying.

Now... more importantly... don't you think that coin, as a "Hercules Head" with only 22 known copies out there, would still be worth a bunch requardless of condition?

I think you should get it professionaly attributed and graded requardless of condition (if not already done).

 

[Don in SJ]

The 1787 Connecticut Coppers that are ground found are in my opinion the hardest of the state coins to attribute due do the sheer large number of known varieties. which is approximately 241 types.

With that said, I spent several hours looking at your copper and at the only two photos I could find of a Miller 7.I variety which is known as the 1787 Hercules Head.

After studying the photos of your coin and the two photos, I can say that your coin is not a Hercules Head CT copper.

I spent some time taking photos and joining them for side by side comparison and there are some easily seen differences. With the wear and Corrosion on your coin, a lot of key features for truly identifying the variety is beyond my capability other than an educated guess that it is perhaps close to another rare, but not as rare variety, a M.32.2-X.2. However, I don't think so, but it is closer type.

I do not believe your "cleaning" ruined the coin, it looks like the entire coin is has the typical rough surface corrosion that effects so many ground found coppers. So the details you most likely saw were those that were there before the corrosive forces started eating away the surface metal while buried all those years. What happens is a "fossil effect" where the dirt maintains the details and as soon as the dirt is removed, the loose, corroded metal comes off with the dirt. Even a professional conservator would not be able to save all the detail, since solid metal is no longer there. (Just read on the NGC site what it says)

Too many think cleaning(By Cleaning I mean removing dirt and crud) the copper coin loses the detail of the coin, what it is doing in many cases is losing the visual aspect of the details, but again, the coin is what the coin is, just removing dirt does not remove solid metal, if it is solid.

Overall, your CT has a great date, but your coin does not match the one in W&E magazine (Brett's), I had to strain my ole eyes to see the date on Brett's, but after I compared that date, and the one photo (attached) from the C-4 Auction Catalog of a recently sold M.7.I Hercules Head, the date of your coin is not the same style. I cannot say what variety it is other than what I stated above about a possible M.32 series one, but since photos for all varieties are not easily obtained, I am not sure. Only sure it is not the M.7..I (See Attached Photo)

On the bust side, the big difference that I see, is that on the M.7.1 Hercules Head the letter C and O are not near the bust at all, on your coin the C is touching the bust and the O is close also. (See Attached Photo)

If I find out the exact variety I will post or PM you, who knows, maybe it is an unknown new variety!

Don

 

[Montana Jim]

Illegal detecting is.....illegal detecting, I'm disappointed, very much so. It makes our hobby look like thievery, sorry but it's the truth. I am disappointed you would encourage others to do the same.

As for the wonderful coin.... I agree you are mistaken on the "Hercules head". I think is much closer too a Miller 32. But maybe I'm wrong. It is a nice find...if it was acquired legally? Keep hunting!

Country Girl... he was not encouraging it... he did reply and I think it's water under the bridge from a long time ago.

Don... Very interesting reading... Obviously spent some time looking closely...

 

[Silver Fox]

INTERESTED.

~Tom

Thanks for the interest in my THing photos. It'll take me a day or two to do it as I didn't have any digital copies of my emulsion photos so I just spent a couple of hours getting all of my THing associated photos and the number grew to over 200! They were in various shoe boxes. I'll select a few, shoot them with my digicam and post them.

 

[Silver Fox]

I think the reason Jim brought this up is because of the way you put it in your prior post.

You said...

YOU went metal detecting in Central park?!

You got it! I detected in Central Park, illegally, until the Rangers got too much for me in the early 2000s.

But then when you explain it here you say you didnt know it was wrong until you found the pocket guide. Then after that you stopped. But you clearly stated previously that you knew it was illegal and you only stopped because the rangers became too much for you. I understand it was the past but to a outsider reading this post it tends to give the wrong impression. It also makes you look dishonest for making one statement then changing it when it bothered someone. Is your last name Clinton? hehe sorry had to add that. Still a nice find! Sorry you messed it up!

Man... bummer.

I wanted to see what a good one looked like so I did some searching and found out there were 241 varieties of 1787 Connecticut coppers that year with only one being the "Hercules Head" with only 22 known to exist.

Have you had your coin professionaly attributed?




I'm dissapointed that you are so eager to advertise your illegal hunting practices. Potentially makes it tougher on the rest of us.

It took me many years to find out metal detecting was illegal and that came about because I found a Ranger's pocketbook manual where it was specified. After that I made sure that I had a permit with me whenever I went to the allowed parks and stopped "sneaking" in to Central Park.

I appreciate your "clarification" but I said in March 2008 that I detected illegally in the PAST. I didn't say that I detected illegaly and I knew THEN that it was illegal until I found the Ranger's manual and it cleared that up for me and I did continue detecting illegally because I thought it was unfair that all of the aforementioned activities were not handled properly by the PEP and we THers were being singled out. I didn't go into the park every day, just once in a while and as someone else said, they also detected in the park even though it was illegal and they didn't know it. I met quite a few detectorists who knew they were violating regulations and didn't care since there aren't that many PEPs.

 

[Montana Jim]

Silver Fox... I didn't read it well enough - I obviously misinterpreted what you wrote.

Looking forward to those pictures of your other finds...

 

[roswellborn]

Ouch. Still, it's a 1700s coin. Not easy to find, and definitely not easy in some of the more western states.

Welcome to TNet & keep on smilin' (great smile on your mug shot)

HH
Nan

 

[Silver Fox]

As promised, and requested here are photos of some of my finds, I did not photo everything I found.

#01 - The machines that started it all, a White's DB/6, hand-held then hip-mount.
#02 - A well-dressed beach THer. Oh, to be young again.
#03 - A most beautiful sight , El Nino of Jan. 1983. Ripped the beach including the tower that was seen in early episodes of "Baywatch."
#04 - Found in my first 6 months.
#05 - 1,700 clad cents that did not require cleaning!
#06 - Jimmy "Sierra" Normandi teaching the unwashed.
#07 - Walking Liberty half without Adolph A. Weinman initials. Wasn't worth anything!
#08 - First treasure found without a detector, courtesy of the local bank. I wrote my first article about this.
#09 - All silver! WL, SL, Barbers, Liberty dimes ("Mercury"), JFK, Franklin, Roosevelt.
#10 - Clad quarters
#11 - Your cladness!
#12 - A visual "meter" - garbage on top, goodies on the bottom all responding with the same signals. Yeah, that's a ladies' Movado watch on the right. And art deco silver bracelet. Gold-filled watch fob from the '40s(?).