Recovery speed questions

[MackDog]

If I run a lower recovery speed and slow down my swing speed it should increase my depth right?
Any other tips for increasing depth.
Thanks MackDdog

 

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[sgoss66]

Yes, both of those things will help maximize depth. The other tip I would give would be "coil control."

Steve

 

[bigscoop]

Maximum depth also requires a very precise coil positioning in order to achieve the strongest and most repeatable returns possible. This can often require very tiny coil motions, much like that of precise pinpointing. It is slow, methodical, detecting.

Gold Mode, when it can be applied, is also much deeper then the other standard modes. In my area of the midwest I use this mode in just about all of my land and water hunting.

 

[67GTA]

In theory: All metal on. Multi frequency. Ground Balance. Lowest recovery speed possible. Slowest swing speed possible. Highest sensitivity possible . FE or F2 at zero. Of course this is site dependent. Your not going to be able to use these settings in a trashy park or an iron infested home site. You would have to dig the last few layers of junk before using these settings. All metal (on) turns off iron discrim. Targets at the very fringe of detection depth will often give an iron tone. Any iron discrim or iron bias will make this worse. I didn't read the manual when I first started using the Nox and thought the horseshoe button just turned off the iron sounds. Then I figured out it actually was FULL iron discrimination when turned off. I thought iron bias was the discrimination, but it is actually setting how likely an iffy target is labeled as iron. So any of these two settings will cause you not to hear deep targets. Ground balance will tune out the ground so it's not masking deep targets. One other tool is the threshold. It will alert you to targets past the point of any tonal response by "breaking" the hum when the coil passes over them. Keep in mind that chasing the deepest of targets will inevitably make you dig more iron/junk.

 

[cudamark]

If I run a lower recovery speed and slow down my swing speed it should increase my depth right?
Any other tips for increasing depth.
Thanks MackDdog

If you're hunting high conductors, you can sometimes use 4khz and get a bit more depth. Don't rely on the I.D. numbers in this mode though.

 

[vferrari]

There are no free lunches however. A lot of folks here advising low recovery speeds as possible, while this "in theory" is somewhat true, there IS a downside to dialing down recovery speed (other than the obvious loss of separation ability) too far. As stated my ML in the Equinox manual, setting recovery speed too low can result in diminishing returns because ground noise (in mild to hot ground) starts to pick up - this is noticeable when running with no iron discrimination such as in horseshoe "no disc" mode (aka "all metal" even though it is NOT a true all metal mode). So setting recovery speed too low can actually be counterproductive to you goal of achieving max depth. Coil control and frequency setting are probably more important than dialing down recovery speed - I recommend no lower than 4 if you are using an 800. On a 600, "1" is not the same as a "1" recovery speed setting on the 800, so running "1" on the 600 is not as detrimental as running a "1" on the 800 as far as ground noise is concerned.

Frankly, I personally value separation over depth. Depth is overrated - over the past 20 years VLF Induction Balance detectors have been operating at their depth limit - there is no recent technological advancement that has appreciably improved depth. What this means is that spots that have been pounded for years by detectorists have given up most of their deep targets because they are detectable. What is left are the myriad of relatively shallow targets that are hiding in the trash and junk layers that have been invisible until technology recently improved signal processing speed and effectiveness enabling unmasking of shallow keepers. That is not to say that there are not deep targets out there that you should be pursuing (and you have been given a lot of good advice here), but setting up your detector for those few deep targets means it is likely set up the very opposite of what you would want to unmask the more numerous keepers that are hiding in the trash. Just some food for thought...FWIW

 

[midalake]

There are no free lunches however. A lot of folks here advising low recovery speeds as possible, while this "in theory" is somewhat true, there IS a downside to dialing down recovery speed (other than the obvious loss of separation ability) too far. As stated my ML in the Equinox manual, setting recovery speed too low can result in diminishing returns because ground noise (in mild to hot ground) starts to pick up - this is noticeable when running with no iron discrimination such as in horseshoe "no disc" mode (aka "all metal" even though it is NOT a true all metal mode). So setting recovery speed too low can actually be counterproductive to you goal of achieving max depth. Coil control and frequency setting are probably more important than dialing down recovery speed - I recommend no lower than 4 if you are using an 800. On a 600, "1" is not the same as a "1" recovery speed setting on the 800, so running "1" on the 600 is not as detrimental as running a "1" on the 800 as far as ground noise is concerned.

Frankly, I personally value separation over depth. Depth is overrated - over the past 20 years VLF Induction Balance detectors have been operating at their depth limit - there is no recent technological advancement that has appreciably improved depth. What this means is that spots that have been pounded for years by detectorists have given up most of their deep targets because they are detectable. What is left are the myriad of relatively shallow targets that are hiding in the trash and junk layers that have been invisible until technology recently improved signal processing speed and effectiveness enabling unmasking of shallow keepers. That is not to say that there are not deep targets out there that you should be pursuing (and you have been given a lot of good advice here), but setting up your detector for those few deep targets means it is likely set up the very opposite of what you would want to unmask the more numerous keepers that are hiding in the trash. Just some food for thought...FWIW

Also to add to what Vferrari has correctly stated. Depends on where you might be hunting? Beach, Ground. At the beach, the Equinox CLEARLY runs more clear with less interference with 800 settings Recovery 6 and IB6. The extra "depth" factor is OVERRATED by almost all people with lower settings. Even with a recovery setting at 6 good coil control is needed for deep idenification.

Here is what I recommend and have done. So for a whole year I set a user program at Recovery 4 IB 4. Any deep unknown signal was looked at in the other setting of 4-4.

Before I switched programs I asked myself if I was going to dig this target anyway. In over a years time not one target changed my mind nor was there any targets of value found that surprised me. I still keep that user program, but haven't used it in over 6 months.

 

[MackDog]

There are no free lunches however. A lot of folks here advising low recovery speeds as possible, while this "in theory" is somewhat true, there IS a downside to dialing down recovery speed (other than the obvious loss of separation ability) too far. As stated my ML in the Equinox manual, setting recovery speed too low can result in diminishing returns because ground noise (in mild to hot ground) starts to pick up - this is noticeable when running with no iron discrimination such as in horseshoe "no disc" mode (aka "all metal" even though it is NOT a true all metal mode). So setting recovery speed too low can actually be counterproductive to you goal of achieving max depth. Coil control and frequency setting are probably more important than dialing down recovery speed - I recommend no lower than 4 if you are using an 800. On a 600, "1" is not the same as a "1" recovery speed setting on the 800, so running "1" on the 600 is not as detrimental as running a "1" on the 800 as far as ground noise is concerned.

Frankly, I personally value separation over depth. Depth is overrated - over the past 20 years VLF Induction Balance detectors have been operating at their depth limit - there is no recent technological advancement that has appreciably improved depth. What this means is that spots that have been pounded for years by detectorists have given up most of their deep targets because they are detectable. What is left are the myriad of relatively shallow targets that are hiding in the trash and junk layers that have been invisible until technology recently improved signal processing speed and effectiveness enabling unmasking of shallow keepers. That is not to say that there are not deep targets out there that you should be pursuing (and you have been given a lot of good advice here), but setting up your detector for those few deep targets means it is likely set up the very opposite of what you would want to unmask the more numerous keepers that are hiding in the trash. Just some food for thought...FWIW

There are many areas here in a spokane that are still yielding old coins at deep depths like 9-10” dimes. The Knox is the only unit reaching them

 

[midalake]

There are many areas here in a spokane that are still yielding old coins at deep depths like 9-10” dimes. The Knox is the only unit reaching them

If want to try a trick I use on the beach. I don't hunt land and am not familiar with the land settings.

However in beach 2 I have been able to identify DEEP non ferrous targets by running in horseshoe mode and seeing if the target single rings or gives a double ring [deep targets] The double ring is iron, always. The target that single rings and has a signal that does not breakdown as you work around it, is non ferrous.

I have been able to dig many targets now and when I switch back to discrimination the Equinox won't even register. This really shocks me! On a few of these targets not even a tick in discrimination.

The reason I don't know if this works in the land mode is, 1- don't use those modes and 2- not sure if frequency weighting will allow this to work as well as in beach 2. [haven't tried beach 1 either]

However after my last month on the machine I was blown away by how many targets I found this way. I have not dug gold yet, but everything else with a vast array of Non Ferrous targets.

 

[bigscoop]

Here in my region of the Midwest we don't have difficult soil conditions, so keeping that in mind, there is zero doubt that, with everything else being equal, Gold Modes are far deeper then the other modes. I routinely recover items like Mercury dimes, per example, at 10 more inches with fairly accurate VDI readings. This same thing being true when water hunting as well over fairly clean bottoms. However, when I'm land hunting and searching for truly deep items then nothing I have used in a machine with disc capabilities can compare to the Sov GT. Of course, you don't have VDI with this machine. The same being said of the Excal when water hunting.

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

Here in my region of the Midwest we don't have difficult soil conditions, so keeping that in mind, there is zero doubt that, with everything else being equal, Gold Modes are far deeper then the other modes. I routinely recover items like Mercury dimes, per example, at 10 more inches with fairly accurate VDI readings. This same thing being true when water hunting as well over fairly clean bottoms. However, when I'm land hunting and searching for truly deep items then nothing I have used in a machine with disc capabilities can compare to the Sov GT. Of course, you don't have VDI with this machine. The same being said of the Excal when water hunting.

Oh but there is VDI with the Sovereign. Used them for years...

 

[midalake]

Here in my region of the Midwest we don't have difficult soil conditions, so keeping that in mind, there is zero doubt that, with everything else being equal, Gold Modes are far deeper then the other modes. I routinely recover items like Mercury dimes, per example, at 10 more inches with fairly accurate VDI readings. This same thing being true when water hunting as well over fairly clean bottoms. However, when I'm land hunting and searching for truly deep items then nothing I have used in a machine with disc capabilities can compare to the Sov GT. Of course, you don't have VDI with this machine. The same being said of the Excal when water hunting.

So this gold mode thing. [which I am a skeptic] Since I am unable to use this at the salt beach, I have a few questions. How do the gold modes find silver better than say the field modes? Or running the Equinox in 4Khz.

How much sensitivity can you run in general compared to field modes?

Are you using gold modes as a primary search tool or as a secondary mode to check already located targets. Thanks

 

[midalake]

Oh but there is VDI with the Sovereign. Used them for years...

Then there is always the Minelab meter that came with most machines.

 

[bigscoop]

Oh but there is VDI with the Sovereign. Used them for years...

Yep, I have VDI on my Sov too, was thinking of the Excal when I said that....lol

 

[bigscoop]

So this gold mode thing. [which I am a skeptic] Since I am unable to use this at the salt beach, I have a few questions. How do the gold modes find silver better than say the field modes? Or running the Equinox in 4Khz.

How much sensitivity can you run in general compared to field modes?

Are you using gold modes as a primary search tool or as a secondary mode to check already located targets. Thanks

Sensitivity varies from one location to the next, so whatever I can get away with from one location to the next. I generally run my recovery speed at 3,4, but sometimes as low as 1, though at these much slower settings you have to be conscious of the latency issue, 3,4, seems to alleviate the issue but I'm use to it. Personally, with the Nox, I've never really noticed any advantage over gold mode with single frequency such as 4khz.

 

[bigscoop]

I just ran this batch of silver through the tumbler yesterday afternoon. Most of it has no value beyond scrap anyway, however, if you use the fine landscape ballast sand they sell at Hoppy Lobby in their scale railroad section it will actually produce a fine polish when used with a little water and a little Dawn dish soap. Some of these items were extremely tarnished and could use a couple of more hours in the tumbler but I was mainly just trying to get through all of the heavy black tarnish.

The Gold Mode has been very productive for me in my region of the country, both in and out of the water. Batches of silver like this are routine around here.

 

[bigscoop]

In my opinion, one of the drawbacks to the Equinox, and this goes back to what Vferrari referenced, is it's large coil size, or the larger footprint/search field that it produces. This can create a lot of additional havoc in the search field and strain on the processor. So I really wish there was an 8" coil option just for this reason.

 

[vferrari]

In my opinion, one of the drawbacks to the Equinox, and this goes back to what Vferrari referenced, is it's large coil size, or the larger footprint/search field that it produces. This can create a lot of additional havoc in the search field and strain on the processor. So I really wish there was an 8" coil option just for this reason.

I got the Coiltek 5x10. Love it, better depth than you would think (good enough for most situations), decent 10" swing coverage (unlike that 6" round ML offers), sees less ground which is good in hot soil, and of course light weight. It really is a 9.5 x 5 coil with a footprint almost identical to the XP Deus HF elliptical. Anyway, it is not coming off the machine anytime soon unless I need the inch or two (give or take) additional depth capability the 11" provides.

Re: gold mode. I use it a lot for relic hunting because lead and brass relics have conductivities similar to gold and are more reactive to the higher frequency used by gold mode. No tone ID in gold mode, though, as it uses a pseudo VCO pitch audio.

I don't really think of it as a silver slayer mode because the higher 40 khz frequency is more limited in its depth pentration (that's just physics) than 4 khz, but if the targets are 6 inches or less, probably not an issue and the maximum depth 40 khz can penetrate is highly variable depending on soil conditions, coil size, and target size/conductivity.

 

[vferrari]

In my opinion, one of the drawbacks to the Equinox, and this goes back to what Vferrari referenced, is it's large coil size, or the larger footprint/search field that it produces. This can create a lot of additional havoc in the search field and strain on the processor. So I really wish there was an 8" coil option just for this reason.

I got the Coiltek 5x10. Love it, better depth than you would think (good enough for most situations), decent 10" swing coverage (unlike that 6" round ML offers), sees less ground which is good in hot soil, and of course light weight. It really is a 9.5 x 5 coil with a footprint almost identical to the XP Deus HF elliptical. Anyway, it is not coming off the machine anytime soon unless I need the inch or two (give or take) additional depth capability the 11" provides.

Re: Gold mode. I use it a lot for relic hunting because lead and brass relics have conductivities similar to gold and are more reactive to the higher frequency dominated multifrequency profile programmed for Gold mode. No tone ID in Gold mode, though, as it solely uses a pseudo VCO pitch audio. But that audio combined with no disc horseshoe mode really allows you to hear squeaker targets vs. the discrete tone ID audio provided in the non gold modes (though 50 tones is pretty good). This audio really makes the site come alive with target signals strong and weak, which gives the detectorist a sensation of better depth performance or of being able to "see" all the targets in the ground. I wish the Gold mode VCO audio was an available audio option for Park/Field/Beach modes since they are not limited to operation at 20 khz and higher single frequencies like the Gold modes.

I don't really think of Gold mode as a silver slayer mode because the higher 40 khz frequency (which dominates the Gold mode multifrequency profile) is more limited in its depth pentration (that's just physics) than the lower frequency Multi modes (Park 1, Field 1, Beach) or low single frequency modes at 4 or 5 khz. If the targets are 6 inches or less, probably a non-issue and the maximum depth 40 khz can penetrate is highly variable depending on soil conditions, coil size, and target size/conductivity, so 6 inches may not be the ultimate depth limit in Gold mode.

Bottom line, Gold mode obviously works for more than just gold, including silver, given the right combination of environmental factors - that's why I try to let folks know when they are considering the 600 vs.the 800 not to dismiss gold mode as something they aren't going to use because they don't plan on natural gold prospecting. I think ML calling it Gold mode ignores the other detecting possibilities the mode brings to the table, unfortunately. That all being said, Gold mode is not necessarily the ideal choice across the board due to the physics depth limitations of the higher operating frequency and because VCO audio can be either limiting or enabling depending on the situation. Gold mode is definitely not stable or useful for high conductive alkaline soil or salt beach/water situations. Gold mode is a great complimentary relic mode to my primary relic go to mode of Field 2, under most conditions. Just my 2 cents.

 

[bigscoop]

So here are a few examples of some of the small gold items I have recently recovered using the Gold Mode while water hunting. These have all come from heavily hunted and heavily sanded in areas of the lake bottom, this including some of those really trashy waterlines. The 14K chain had no clasp on it when recovered, I just recently had my local jeweler replace the missing clasp. Nearly all of these items, if not all of them, were at that 10" range or deeper and laying on or close to the supporting hard pan, be it clay, gravel, etc. I can say the same for most of the older silver coins that I recover as well. Seldom do I recover much of anything like this in just one or two scoops, usually requiring at least there or more full scoops, sometimes several more. Modern items generally make up the bulk of my shallower recoveries, the older stuff almost always being several inches deeper.

Most of the older gold I recover is less then 4 grams which usually means weaker returns and smaller target signatures, so there is a method to the madness as many times all I get is a whisper or repeatable tic and a blank screen. A lot of times PP can't even locate the target. But when water hunting I can create a large hole in the surface so I can get my coil closer, while on land I have to dig a small plug and then employ a pinpointer to achieve the same method. So while land hunting for deep targets I frequently recover items without ever having gotten a VDI return on my machine, just a repeatable nonferrous return of some type in my headphones. The Sov and Excal help to simplify this because this series offers the three tone return on the threshold which helps establish the potential target I.D. and that decision making.

I have/host a treasure camp at one of my favorite old lakes and anyone who has ever spent any time there with me has seen me produce these tiny and deep recoveries with a fair amount of routine, though most could actually care less about about a 1 gram 10k or 14K ring or a 1 gram 22K pendant, etc., but when accumulated they certainly add up, not to mention all of the old silver and other old items that are recovered along the way. I also find that Gold Mode works excellent when trying to pick apart those trash lines, another area where I spend a considerable amount of time.

So for me the machine is important but the method itself in combination with the right machine is what makes the difference. Employ it enough and it becomes second nature but, like anything else, getting there takes a lot of time, patience, and practice. The Gold Mode works well for me for these reasons, though it's still not an Excal but at times it has its advantages.