Replacing Lithium Ion batteries in battery pack for CTX 3030

[Sandscoopdan]

Any of you guys repacked the Lithium Ion battery packs with new 18650 Li-Ion batteries and has it worked ok - charging and run time?
Thank you,
Dan

 

[OBN]

Should be fairly easy.. check the voltage first, take a few pictures... than all you need to do is de-solder it.' order the batteries.. which I'm not sure the size but you can get them from 18650 batteries, they carry all sizes and always buy brand names and not the junk from Amazon or ebay.

Putting it back together just reconstruct, I would say the only thing inside would be the li-ions and a BMS.
Post some pics as you go, I can guide you along if needed. I've done several Li-ion packs over the last 8 years for metal detector and everything else that uses a battery. I found it way cheaper, Fisher wants 200 for the stock batteries for the AQ, I found I could make them for about 100 each, and mine last 11 hours to their 3.5 hours.

Also Be careful and not short out any connections breaking down the pack than making, they are like little nukes.. very dangerous if shorted. And you will need a Good Solder gun..

Couple TDI Pro batteries I did for a friend this past week.. One Stock battery they want 189.00... I did two batteries for him, cost me 120. and cost him 175.oo w/chargers. And I only do work for the guys I hunt with now.. retired from all of that stuff but will give advice.

 

[Bart@Big Boys Hobbies]

Man that is a nice setup!

 

[Sandscoopdan]

That is nice! That is beyond the scope or what I can do.
Could you tell me where the positive and negative is on the battery pack itself? I
I cannot tell if it is the Li Ion battery pack or the charger that is the problem.
Thank you,
Dan

 

[OBN]

That is nice! That is beyond the scope or what I can do.
Could you tell me where the positive and negative is on the battery pack itself? I
I cannot tell if it is the Li Ion battery pack or the charger that is the problem.
Thank you,
Dan

Do you have a volt meter? You will need to test both..

 

[Sandscoopdan]

That is nice! That is beyond the scope or what I can do.
Could you tell me where the positive and negative is on the battery pack itself? I
I cannot tell if it is the Li Ion battery pack or the charger that is the problem.
Thank you,
Dan

Do you have a volt meter? You will need to test both..

yes. I have one but could not locate pos or negative.

 

[OBN]

That is nice! That is beyond the scope or what I can do.
Could you tell me where the positive and negative is on the battery pack itself? I
I cannot tell if it is the Li Ion battery pack or the charger that is the problem.
Thank you,
Dan

yes. I have one but could not locate pos or negative.

Switch meter to volts ( V ) probe on each terminal, it will say DC if correct probe on terminals. If you have it reversed it will say DC but with a black line above it...or below..

I think the CTX had like slip pins so you will have to figure out the order, which is which. There will be one neg and one positive for sure...... just a matter of elimination.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

I don’t think it has been mentioned yet, but some 18650’s have built in internal protection circuits (short circuit, over-charge, over-discharge). Some don’t. Lithium-Ion batteries can be very dangerous without these protection circuits. Just imagine your house or truck spontaneously combusting! With that said, I’d tackle a re-cell job only having minimal electrical knowledge. SOME battery packs have rudimentary software chips that track the number of charges, even bricking the battery pack after a certain number of charges. You MIGHT have to “hot swap” the new batteries in to prevent the voltage from dropping (basically maintaining the required voltage using a separate power source while batteries are unsoldered.) But I don’t know anything about the battery pack you have. Some manufacturers love to be proprietary.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Old thread but still relevant

 

[JosephElectronTek]

Any of you guys repacked the Lithium Ion battery packs with new 18650 Li-Ion batteries and has it worked ok - charging and run time?
Thank you,
Dan

Hi Dan, just made it here, but I can't figure out how to edit my profile yet. Too new here...Anyway I'm experienced with rebuilding battery packs, let me know if your interested. BTW, a YouTube video exists on this subject, that has horrible mistakes-such as directly soldering onto the cells! (and the wrong type of cells too! He used button top cells from Ebay, button tops are very hard to reliably spot weld.)
Those are not the only mistakes, too many to list here.......I'll be here, take care. J

 

[JosephElectronTek]

I don’t think it has been mentioned yet, but some 18650’s have built in internal protection circuits (short circuit, over-charge, over-discharge). Some don’t. Lithium-Ion batteries can be very dangerous without these protection circuits. Just imagine your house or truck spontaneously combusting! With that said, I’d tackle a re-cell job only having minimal electrical knowledge. SOME battery packs have rudimentary software chips that track the number of charges, even bricking the battery pack after a certain number of charges. You MIGHT have to “hot swap” the new batteries in to prevent the voltage from dropping (basically maintaining the required voltage using a separate power source while batteries are unsoldered.) But I don’t know anything about the battery pack you have. Some manufacturers love to be proprietary.

I know for a fact that some E-bike manufacturers have placed chips inside their packs, communicating on the CAN bus architecture with the main controller, making sure to monitor the battery conditions while in use, but also prevents aftermarket battery swaps.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

I know for a fact that some E-bike manufacturers have placed chips inside their packs, communicating on the CAN bus architecture with the main controller, making sure to monitor the battery conditions while in use, but also prevents aftermarket battery swaps.

Yup, similar on drone aircraft batteries. I woukd think that you could maintain similar voltage to the board to fool it into thinking the batteries have not been swapped?

 

[JosephElectronTek]

Yup, similar on drone aircraft batteries. I woukd think that you could maintain similar voltage to the board to fool it into thinking the batteries have not been swapped?

True, in most cases, unless the manufacturer places a countdown timer in the BMS pcb firmware, then all bets are off.

 

[Sandscoopdan]

Wow, sounds like you’re the person that I need to talk to about getting some work done cause I can’t figure out the order of the pin order on the Mail site on the the cool side cause all I see online is like well. I know this is a different topic, but I’m trying to get a larger CTX Minelab X Excalibur coil on and on my quick connect and I’m not sure the wire order that I come up with something that says the wire order but it doesn’t specify whether it’s a female side or the male side and I can’t quite figure it out. Yeah I’m not dumb so maybe you can help me out with that. Come over this weekend or something we can show you tell me what you need. No, we can knock it out go to the beach buy some gold or whatever.
As far as the battery for the CTS 3030 man that’s I’m trying to figure out if it’s the battery charger or the battery itself. That is a problem and last time I got it back from Minelab they’re telling me it was a battery charger. I was having a problem and I never bought a new one so yeah I think that could be the culprit but I want to do some testing to make sure so I have a friend of mine. Wayne is looking into it and I don’t know if anybody here else knows where to find the positive and negative on the battery with my own battery with CTX 3030 both on the battery housing and the battery charger and yeah man, I definitely want to get that call Tech coil large coil connected those little connectors are small

 

[JosephElectronTek]

Should be fairly easy.. check the voltage first, take a few pictures... than all you need to do is de-solder it.' order the batteries.. which I'm not sure the size but you can get them from 18650 batteries, they carry all sizes and always buy brand names and not the junk from Amazon or ebay.

Putting it back together just reconstruct, I would say the only thing inside would be the li-ions and a BMS.
Post some pics as you go, I can guide you along if needed. I've done several Li-ion packs over the last 8 years for metal detector and everything else that uses a battery. I found it way cheaper, Fisher wants 200 for the stock batteries for the AQ, I found I could make them for about 100 each, and mine last 11 hours to their 3.5 hours.

Also Be careful and not short out any connections breaking down the pack than making, they are like little nukes.. very dangerous if shorted. And you will need a Good Solder gun..


View attachment 2130208View attachment 2130211

Couple TDI Pro batteries I did for a friend this past week.. One Stock battery they want 189.00... I did two batteries for him, cost me 120. and cost him 175.oo w/chargers. And I only do work for the guys I hunt with now.. retired from all of that stuff but will give advice.

View attachment 2130209

Wow, sounds like you’re the person that I need to talk to about getting some work done cause I can’t figure out the order of the pin order on the Mail site on the the cool side cause all I see online is like well. I know this is a different topic, but I’m trying to get a larger CTX Minelab X Excalibur coil on and on my quick connect and I’m not sure the wire order that I come up with something that says the wire order but it doesn’t specify whether it’s a female side or the male side and I can’t quite figure it out. Yeah I’m not dumb so maybe you can help me out with that. Come over this weekend or something we can show you tell me what you need. No, we can knock it out go to the beach buy some gold or whatever.
As far as the battery for the CTS 3030 man that’s I’m trying to figure out if it’s the battery charger or the battery itself. That is a problem and last time I got it back from Minelab they’re telling me it was a battery charger. I was having a problem and I never bought a new one so yeah I think that could be the culprit but I want to do some testing to make sure so I have a friend of mine. Wayne is looking into it and I don’t know if anybody here else knows where to find the positive and negative on the battery with my own battery with CTX 3030 both on the battery housing and the battery charger and yeah man, I definitely want to get that call Tech coil large coil connected those little connectors are small

yes, we'll do a meet up and bring your battery pack and charger, I'll bring my Fluke VOM and get to the bottom of this. As for the coil(s), IDK
yet about any details, try to find schematics or technical drawings, as each manufacturer has different pin-outs and cabling.

 

[JosephElectronTek]

I think I accidentally re-quoted OBN's post, not sure how that happened, or I'm too new to forums, however OBN's work looks great.

 

[JosephElectronTek]

Just found out the smoking gun to the battery issue. Old batteries will not work properly with newer rev.4 BC10 chargers. Seems that the smart BMS chip internal to the battery case has firmware that MUST be compatible with the smart charger being used. Why? Only Minelab knows. And I only found out after doing a DEEP google search on the issue. Check out Kellycodetectors.com statement on their website about BC10 rev.4 chargers and batteries. I think only certain dealers were given the memo. The battery pack I was given to investigate has cells dated 2012. A major clue.
With a rev4 BC10 charger. No bueno. Replace battery's smart BMS pcb? not available. Buy new battery. Oh well, it's about those blasted chips!

 

[JosephElectronTek]

P.S. I will post a DEEP very nerdy deep dive report on my investigation on this matter if interests are shown.

 

[Sandscoopdan]

Switch meter to volts ( V ) probe on each terminal, it will say DC if correct probe on terminals. If you have it reversed it will say DC but with a black line above it...or below..
View attachment 2240774

I think the CTX had like slip pins so you will have to figure out the order, which is which. There will be one neg and one positive for sure...... just a matter of elimination.

Wow. I have some learning to do. I never knew this. I was just reading in the Minelab CTX handbook that Andy Sabisch wrote and he mentions that you can place Li-Ion AA Batteries in the alkaline pack for the CTX as long as you use a rapid charger. Has anyone tried this ?
Thank you,
Dan

 

[JosephElectronTek]

Look at the ribbon cable (5 pin orange cable) and see the copper flat wires inside the plastic. The 2 wide coppers are the power. The 3 smaller ones are for data. Also note the green BMS circuit board, the three small black squares on the board are mosfet switches. They are turned off until the CTX is ready for power. This is to be expected when using the regular Li-ion pack.