requesting permission

[Newfiehunter]

Hi!

I have a question with regarding asking permission to hunt public parks. Here it is. i have been detecting for years in my town without any problems searching public parks. However, there is another town nearby that has a park going back to the early 1900s that Im quite sure has never seen a detectorist. The thing is should I go there and detect anyway or should I see the parks and recrecation director first and request permission? The problem with this is that most people around here don't quite understand the hobby and chances are I may get turned down. But if I hunt it first, chances are I'll never be bothered but then again you never know. What should I do?

Newfiehunter

 

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[RON (PA)]

I would call/visit the parks & recreation director to ask permission. The worst he can do is tell you No. If you take a chance and detect without his permission, you can risk getting tickets/fines and giving the hobby a bad name. Once you get permission, carry his name and telephone number with you, so in case the police stop you, you will have the information handy. Just my opinion. Hope it helps.

 

[EasyMoney]

Go to the parks department. Ask if there are any laws or written rules disallowing use of metal detectors. Also ask if there are any laws disregarding digging or probing, and what they are. If there are these laws in existence, then ask what they are and if you can have a copy of them. Then go to the library or the courthouse and get a copy of these laws if the parks dept didn't have them, allowing or disallowing. Most cops don't even know what these laws are, but if you carry a copy of them with you, you will be lots happier. The other option is to go to a lawyer and ask for them. That's expensive though. Remember, that in some cases your detector can be taken from you if you are violating an ordinance or a law.

 

[Newfiehunter]

thanks for the advice!!

Newfiehunter

 

[cosmic]

I usually start with a call to the local police...

 

[olegator01]

Hi newfie and all

I too have only been MDing for about 4/5 months w/my MXT and the first thing I did was go to the county courthouse in my county and was told to contact parks and recreation to get permission to detect. I called and was told the only places I couldn't go was any private property (without owners permission), any prop. with KEEP OUT signs on it. The city said the same, except I couldn't dig in any city park. Guess what, my first time out in the city park I got a hit on a silver $1. @ about 10/12 inches (darn) but I want to keep digging there so guess that dollar will stay there. In 5 days at our county sports complex (about 2-1/2 hours per day), I got $31.54, hey man I'm 73 years old. LOL but what the h---. it was a lot of fun.
Really!!!!!!! All clad, and $7.51 in 1 day. So I agree, get in touch with the people down town FIRST. HH And for someone my age it's darn good exercise. Besides I picked up a lot of trash. And a Merry Christmas/Happy New Year to all.
olegator01

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ron, you say: "The worst he can do is tell you No" Oh yeah sure, and guess what will happen when that same guy drives by the park and sees another md'r out there? He'll remember the earlier inquiry, and start booting others, that he would otherwise not have probably never have noticed or paid attention to.

Let me illistrate it this way: Just as in newfiehunter's situation, in my town, we too detected the parks for years, and no one ever said anything to us. Back in the early '80s, it never even occured to us that you needed to "ask" to detect public parks anyhow. One day, a newbie who had just moved to our city, joined our detecting club. At his first meeting, he sat there watching the find-of-the-month show and tell portion. A friend of mine's turn came, and he showed an old silver coin that he'd got from Central Park in our town (our oldest middle-of-town-park here). The newbie raised his hand for a question: "I thought it was illegal to detect in central park?" The rest of us turned and looked at him, asking "since when?"

Turns out, he'd gone to city hall and asked! This was news to us, because we'd gone, at will, anytime, in full view of street traffic, etc... and never had a problem. In fact, the gardener on duty would sometimes ask our help in finding sprinkler heads. So you can imagine the confusion when this newbie announces this. A few more skittish folks now just assumed "oh no, the parks are off-limits now", while others of us said "that's silly, you probably just got someone who's image was geeks with shovels, and I'm not going to stop detecting".

The moral of the story? Sometimes no one cares till you ask. If you ask enough people if you can pick your own nose, someone will eventually tell you "no". If you're skittish, look up yourself to see if there's anything addressing detecting. If there's not, I assume I'm ok, till told otherwise. Sometimes city codes are available on-line, for instance. Of course, you still have to use due discretion. Ie.: go at off-hours, don't dig holes in front of people, etc.... If someone has an issue, they're welcome to tell you. And no, you won't get "fines and tickets" since you've already looked it up, and there is no prohibitions.

Look it up on your own if your skittish. I'd even be careful of asking a deskbound person, because, although they might say "nothing addresses it", they might add "but you still can't do it". I have seen this happen to, where someone asks at a city hall. The clerk can find nothing, so she passes the question up the chain of command. Eventually, someone says "no, just because I said so". In another case, I heard of someone getting a "no", and the reason given? Because the utility company (PG&E) has a rule "call before you dig". The md'r objected "but I'll only be probing a few inches!". The clerk reviewed the utility company's rules, and responded "I'm sorry sir, the utility's rules do not specify the depth involved, it just says any digging" True story! :P

 

[Highwater]

I would never advise anyone to intentionally break the law and lack of knowledge of the law is never a good excuse. However, Most parks have a rules and regulations board, usually somewhere around the parking area. If they are against metal detecting in the park it is usually posted on the board. I have also seen postings where it says not to dig or remove any items or disturb the soil, ect, so this would kind of shoot down metal detecting.
I would think that if you hunt a park and someone says something, or that you aren't supposed to be there, if it isn't posted then you could at least point that out in your defense and probably mosey on out of there without too much fan fair. As stated above, go when there are the fewest people.
If you go asking around and get no for an answer, whether that person is right or wrong you just shut yourself out and anyone that comes along after you.
It is usually easier to get forgiven than it is to get permission.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Guess what, my first time out in the city park I got a hit on a silver $1. @ about 10/12 inches (darn) but I want to keep digging there so guess that dollar will stay there. olegator01

You might check out the EZ-Dig-R II. With a probe you can work most coins out of the ground.

I use it and so far (knock on wood) I have had no problem detecting city parks. The hole is no bigger then a squiral would dig for nuts, and when done you can dress it up so you can't tell you were even there.

Here is a link of one for sale. http://cgi.ebay.com/2in1-EZ-Dig-R-I...4201596QQihZ015QQcategoryZ58056QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Newfiehunter]

I see everybody's point of view from both side of the coin (pardon the pun). It is perfectly understandable that you must seek permission if you are to hunt private property. However in the years that I detected the public parks in my hometown, I was never bothered. Only once a park official came up to me out of curiosity and then said I could carry on as long as I didn't leave any holes. He was really friendly.

Now I have the opportuntiy to hunt elsewhere at a great potential site, where I am not too familiar with, that I was wondering about asking permission to search that town's park. I just thought it was ok to search public parks (because it is public) without permission. When I'm finished detecting you wouldn't even know I was there. I've read in books and magazines where MDist have this motto "Have detector will travel" and when they see a park, they will just jump out of their cars and detect it. No permission.

The catch 22 situation is this. If you don't ask permission to search public parks, then you can get fined or perhaps lose or detector or worse. But then again you may never be bothered, like in my hometown. In that case, you may bring home some nice finds.

On the othe side of the coin, if you request permission from the parks and recreation director and is turned down you could have the lost the chance of detecting a good site because you probably wouldn't have been bothered anyway. Especially, if there was no law against it in the first place and perhape you caught the Director in a bad mood that day.

I do appreciate everyone's point of view. I don't break the law or tresspass on anyone's property either. Perhaps, it is better to be safe than sorry and ask and for permission, even though it is my belief that as long as we are responsible, we should be able to detect public parks.

Newfiehunter

 

[CWnut]

I only asked permission one time to detect a public park and was turned down because "the mayor's awful particular about this park, he considers it his baby"
I was out of town and would most likely never return to the site so it wasn't a big issue. Most city and county parks don't have regulations against metal detecting, but they do have rules against damaging or defacing public property. So if you do decide to go for it, be meticulous about your recovery methods and always pick up trash as you encounter it. Picking up trash will get you in the good graces of the person responsible as quick as anything. Go during hours when most other persons don't use the park, this will lessen the chances of someone complaining on you. Be courteous, offer your services if someone wants you to locate an item and have fun..

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Newfiehunter, you say: "If you don't ask permission to search public parks, then you can get fined or perhaps lose or detector or worse."

Can you please cite me an instance of this happening? Barring someone night-sneaking historic monuments, or someone who can't take a warning, you would have a hard time finding any such cases. There might be a rare incident of a non-historic innocuous park hunter getting roughed up. The recent Houstan flap comes to mind. But in that case, there WAS a rule that applied, but the hunter merely did not know it.

To remedy this, I still do not recommend "asking". Better to look yourself, if you are skittish. Ie.: look it up in the rules (available on-line for a lot of cities/places) yourself, instead of waltzing into city hall and asking "can I metal detect at such & such?". Because even if there are no rules, you may get someone who construes something they think applies, and just tell you "no", when in fact, no one would have cared or noticed. Now if you DID find something that specifically addressed md'ing, then by all mean, abide by it. But if nothing is pre-written to address it, I assume that it is not dis-allowed, unless told otherwise. Once again, this is for innocuous parks/schools type places, not obvious historic monuments, where common sense says that whether there's a rule or not, no one wants to be a moron digging in front of an archie, etc....

CWnut, yours is a case example: Here is a case where there may, in fact, have been no particular rule about md'ing (I doubt that there is, for podunk towns here and there). Yet some deskbound secretary, gives the easy answer "no". And basically it amounted to "because we said so". And truth be told ....... if you had just gone (assuming your being neat, using discretion of timing, not walking over people's beach blankets, etc...) you'd probably have just been ignored. You might think "well no harm in asking, since I'll never return to that town again", but think of it: guess what will happen when that same secretary drives by the park and see another md'r out there? She'll remember the earlier inquiry and think "aha! there's one of them!" This happened at a park near me, where a fellow asked the rangers at a particular state park campground "can I metal detect here?". The ranger looked and looked, and finally finds something he thinks applies "no removing objects from the campgrounds" (probably was meant to apply to flowers, wildlife, etc...) So the ranger tells him "no". A week later, a friend of mine who had md'd this park for years un-bothered, was booted. He found out through the grapevine, that the week before, the newbie had taken it upon himself ask. The connection was hard to escape: by asking, some sort of red-flags had put on the hobby, whereas before, no one apparently cared.

 

[midnightcaller]

I went to a city park in Washington and talked to the ranger of that park. He said he has no rules against detecting but thanked me for asking.

 

[Highwater]

I had noticed a park in my area a while back that looked interesting. I saw a large field that is obviously part of the park, but not maintained, that looked inviting and I kept it in mind for future reference. Well, I just also happened to come across a book about the history of this area not long ago and have been reading through it, looking for some land sites to hunt. I have been mostly working the beaches along the coast, but lately we have been having red tide and it feels like an allergy when the wind blows in from the sea so have to choose days with favorable winds. Also the sand is piled up too high to do much good on the beach right now. So reading through the book I came across a story about an old area that was halfway between two towns where people used to camp out. It later turned into a summer resort in the 20's and 30's. As I read about it the book told almost exactly where it was. I connected the dots and it was right at the site of the park. Yesterday I went over there and looked around for any signs that might give the park rules. There was nothing posted about metal detecting, so I spent part of the day doing some loose search patterns over part of the site. I did get to confirm that this is the same place mentioned in the book as I found some period artifacts that proved up. Today I went back and started hunting through all the can slaw which there is more of than you can imagine. I was about 20 or 30 minutes into the hunt when I made a nice find, which I will post a photo of below. It just happened that the grounds keepers were mowing today. I gave them a friendly nod and wave as they whizzed by on their mowing machine. I didn't ask anyone first. After reading all the signs I just started hunting. I think this place will be worth gridding and cleaning out a section at a time. Besides the prize in the photo I also found several other intersting things, including an old pocket watch. This is a very large area and I look forward to having this place to hunt while the beach is out of shape. Good places to hunt are getting harder to find than ever. This is a very good reason to be responsible when detecting and fill in all the holes and pack out all the trash. When a place like this is loaded heavy with junk I usually keep a 5 gallon bucket close by to dump into, then dump that into the trash can on site so I can remove all the trashy targets from the ground. I don't hunt private property without asking first, but will hunt parks if nothing is mentioned in the rules posted about not being able to detect. Had I asked permission and someone decided on their own to say no and set a precedent then this would just end up being another site that would become known as off limits to metal detectors. Just one more site lost to our great hobby.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Highwater, that is a sweet standing quarter. Very low wear, etc.... If that was the site of picnicking in the '20s/30s as you say, there's bound to be more out there. Hopefully no one before you came and cherry picked all the high conductor signals.

As for the maintenance people paying you no mind, you have made the right conclusion: Whereas this shows they don't care (probably didn't even pay attention to you), your scenario might have different, if you'd walked into city or county hall, and asked a desk-bound bureaucrat. Oh, and if you DO do this, be sure to have a shovel in one hand, and a printed out set of ARPA rules in the other hand. "Just so they can fully understand the implications of your request", right? Yeah sure

 

[Highwater]

Tom,
The maint people may have been contract personnel, not sure if they are directly hired by the park?? They were in a hurry to get the work done and I tried to stay out of their way and made sure to be careful to leave the ground as good as possible when done digging.
As far as others cherry picking, I wouldn't doubt for a minute that the place has been hunted in the past, but there is soooooo much trash in the ground and the place is so big that I am sure they left more than they found.
I did a little more research on the place. It started around the turn of the century. I know someone that lives just a block or two away that knows a lot about the place and surrounding area. She wants me to hunt her yard. I will take an extra detector with me and show her how to use it.
As far as hunting this place, I don't expect any problems, but if something should happen I will certainly make a post to this thread. We are all in this together and need to keep each other well informed. HH Highwater

 

[olegator01]

Hi Treasure Hunter,

Thanks, I had seen those somewhere before. Yesm the $1. is right next to a sidewalk and no grass around it. Thanks for the tip. Also, does not KellyCo there in Orlando sell those?



Hey "EVERYONE" , Happy Holidays to all and HH in 08'. olegator

and GOD BLESS.

 

[renegade_7]

Here is what I do, and so far I'm 4 for 4. I go on line and look up the city home page. Then I look for the City Administrater's e-mail ad. and shoot him a permission request that I have on file. This gets me past all the desk jockies and those who might otherwise say no because they either don't know for sure or just don't understand the hobby. When I get the emailed OK, I print it and take it to the park with me. I hope I am right in assuming that the city administrater basically runs the city, and the parks personnel are under his authority. Have had no problems this way, not even in parks where other MDers said they were told no in the past. Works for me. I also try to hunt when the parks are used the least. If you want a copy of my request, just PM me. HH

 

[Newfiehunter]

Tom in Ca to be honest with you I cannot give you an example of of being fined or losing your detector, I was concerned what the worse case senario could be. I was just going by what another member stated earlier. I agree with everything you said.

A public park should be available for everybody, including detectorists as long as we take care to be responsible.