Ride em cowboy!

[Tallone]

Ride 'em cowboy!

Picked up a couple of items this weekend. Perhaps the most interesting is this Stetson hat which I picked up for $25:



I don't know diddly about cowboy hats - or any other kind of hat for that matter. I bought this only because it is a well known brand and I liked the box. Researching ebay indicates that some Stetson's sell in the low 100s. I didn't find any that have a box like this. I don't know what to make of the marking on the inside label which reads, "3X Beaver Quality". Is the felt derived from beaver fur or something? And what does that "3X" mean? I've seen a variety of "X" markings on Stetson's listed on ebay. There is a small stain on the other side of the brim. Does anybody know if this can (or should) be cleaned? I can't find any information on the hat of the box that would establish a date of manufacture but the box looks kind of old.

EDIT: I found an answer to my question about the Xs here: http://www.publiusforum.com/2011/01...signations-just-what-do-those-xs-mean-anyway/ . Turns out they don't really mean anything.

I also bought this Nambe bowl for $5:



This doesn't have great value and it is sort of scratched up but I bought if for my own use anyway just because I like the style.

My only other purchase was this wooden race car:



I paid $30 for this but I think I could have got it for less. I was thinking this was a "one off" piece of folk art but I later found a very similar one on ebay that sold for $50.

Large Wood Wooden Race Car Driver Folk Art Primitive Vintage Model Car 2 | eBay

I think the axles and hub screws may be replacements as the look new but the rest of the car looks to have some age to it.

 

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[billn1956]

with having the box, I think you will be in the highest price range when you sell it.

 

[dejapooh]

The one time I had a Stetson, it was a Stratoliner Fedora with the box. I paid $45 and got $250 (If I remember correct). It seems to me that the vintage box will be worth as much as the hat, if it is a common 3x.

I've heard that they make a 10,000x... Brings pretty big $ if you can find one.

 

[austin]

Not sure, but I believe that a 3X beaver is high quality. The box may be worth as much as the hat. Stetson has been "the brand" forever. Also, stain can probably be removed by a hat shop. All wonderful finds...

 

[diggummup]

Your hat dates to the early 1960's. Dating Stetsons by Company Crests and Hat Liners-Publius Forum &laquo Publius Forum Same website so you probably already know this.

 

[Oregon Viking]

Nice....

 

[Dave44]

Nice hat! Most old Cowboys loved a Stetson. We always wore a resistol. I have never heard of a 100000 x or more, but if there was one it would be hard to afford it! 3 C is a low quality inexpensive hat, but the old hats quality is probably better than a modern 20 X. Looks like a great collectors item.( looks like a dress hat, not a cowboy hat really)

Stetson was taken over by resistol awhile back.

"Today the Stetson and Resistol hat factories are operated under the Hatco, Inc. umbrella in Garland, Texas. The combined factories are one of the largest in the country and produce a line of hats under each name in hundreds of different styles and colors. However, classic styling and premium quality remain as the driving forces behind each and every hat produced.

History of Stetson Hats...

In 1865, with $100, John B. Stetson rented a small room, bought the tools he needed and $10 worth of fur and the John B. Stetson Hat Company was born. A year later the "Hat of the West" or the now famous "Boss of the Plains" hat was born and the name Stetson was on its way to becoming the mark of quality, durability, innovation and beauty. Today, Stetson hats are the most well known hats in the world. Wherever and whenever hats are discussed Stetson will be mentioned.

History of Resistol Hats...

In the early 1920's a young millionaire, E.R. Byer sold his business in Michigan and traveled South to start a new business. He invested in a business run by a brilliant young hat maker, Harry Rolnick, who was operating a small hat factory. E.R. Byer was one of Rolnick's customers and was so impressed by his professionalism, flair for fashion and devotion to quality that in 1927 the firm of Byer-Rolnick was founded in Dallas, Texas. The company produced men's felt hats in Western and Dress stylings and both were marketed under the newly created brand name "Resistol Hats," meaning to resist- all weather. Demand for Resistol hats continued and today as a part of Hatco, Inc. all phases of production are still operated and controlled to ensure product of the highest quality. "[h=2][/h][h=2][/h]

 

[CladSpends2]

Your hat dates to the early 1960's. Dating Stetsons by Company Crests and Hat Liners-Publius Forum &laquo Publius Forum Same website so you probably already know this.

I don't know if that date is just a coincidence or not, but when I saw the pic of that hat, I immediately thought of LBJ and the idea that that hat might have been a "fad" at about the time he took over the presidency.

T.

 

[Fedoracentric]

I am the creator of the website on hats referenced above and can answer any of your hat questions.

CladSpends2: No, you aren't even close with the "fad" comment. That particular style of hat with the 3/8 inch ribbon and ribbon bound edge is essentially the Stetson Open Road configuration. That style was made from about the 1930s all the way to today. So, the hat style was around long before JBJ was around. It was not the result of any fad.

The 3X was the next rung up from Stetson's cheapest hat. The "Stetson Royal" was a $10 hat where as the 3X was a $15 hat.

Tallone: Yours was made in the late 50s or early 60s. Its current worth depends on size. If it is size 7 or smaller it isn't worth much. If it is 7-1/8 or larger if could for for up to $100 on today's market. Size ALWAYS matters on a fedora because people rarely buy hats for a "collection" and almost always buy to wear--even if they are collectors, too. Today's average head size is 7-1/4 or 7-3/8 and larger sizes than that are hard to find in antique fedoras because the average size in the old days was 6-7/8 or 7. The larger sizes were simply not sold as often back in the old days. So, big ones today reach a premium price.

That particular hat box is a common one and not worth too much. The hat is worth a lot more than the box.

The only time a Stetson hat box is worth something on its own is if it is a pre 1940s era box or is a special box like a Flagship, a Stratoliner, or a Whippet-marked box. Stetson hat boxes made from 1940 to today (the special ones aside) aren't worth more than $15 a piece and only if they are in good condition and have the inside hat keeper cardboard part.

Dave44- the 1,000X and crazy numbers like that are used currently on modern Stetsons. They didn't start using higher X values than a 100X until about 1970 or so. The 100X started in about 1950 and went until 1970. It was then a 100 percent beaver hat. Previous to 1950, the most expensive Stetson with the most beaver content was the 7X which was also 100% beaver. The 7X was sold from about the 1890s to the 1970s but meant different things in different eras. (as my website explains).

austin: The 3X is a medium quality.

dejapooh: The Stratoliner has been up and down in price lately. About 2 years ago a larger sided Strat could go for $400! Now a'days they are at more like $190 or so.

Fedoras are very hard to learn about and there is a ton of bad info on them--ESPECIALLY on ebay sales!

 

[diggummup]

I am the creator of the website on hats referenced above and can answer any of your hat questions.

CladSpends2: No, you aren't even close with the "fad" comment. That particular style of hat with the 3/8 inch ribbon and ribbon bound edge is essentially the Stetson Open Road configuration. That style was made from about the 1930s all the way to today. So, the hat style was around long before JBJ was around. It was not the result of any fad.

The 3X was the next rung up from Stetson's cheapest hat. The "Stetson Royal" was a $10 hat where as the 3X was a $15 hat.

Tallone: Yours was made in the late 50s or early 60s. Its current worth depends on size. If it is size 7 or smaller it isn't worth much. If it is 7-1/8 or larger if could for for up to $100 on today's market. Size ALWAYS matters on a fedora because people rarely buy hats for a "collection" and almost always buy to wear--even if they are collectors, too. Today's average head size is 7-1/4 or 7-3/8 and larger sizes than that are hard to find in antique fedoras because the average size in the old days was 6-7/8 or 7. The larger sizes were simply not sold as often back in the old days. So, big ones today reach a premium price.

That particular hat box is a common one and not worth too much. The hat is worth a lot more than the box.

The only time a Stetson hat box is worth something on its own is if it is a pre 1940s era box or is a special box like a Flagship, a Stratoliner, or a Whippet-marked box. Stetson hat boxes made from 1940 to today (the special ones aside) aren't worth more than $15 a piece and only if they are in good condition and have the inside hat keeper cardboard part.

Dave44- the 1,000X and crazy numbers like that are used currently on modern Stetsons. They didn't start using higher X values than a 100X until about 1970 or so. The 100X started in about 1950 and went until 1970. It was then a 100 percent beaver hat. Previous to 1950, the most expensive Stetson with the most beaver content was the 7X which was also 100% beaver. The 7X was sold from about the 1890s to the 1970s but meant different things in different eras. (as my website explains).

austin: The 3X is a medium quality.

dejapooh: The Stratoliner has been up and down in price lately. About 2 years ago a larger sided Strat could go for $400! Now a'days they are at more like $190 or so.

Fedoras are very hard to learn about and there is a ton of bad info on them--ESPECIALLY on ebay sales!

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. It is welcomed and much appreciated. I have bookmarked your site for future references.

 

[Fedoracentric]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. It is welcomed and much appreciated.

You are all quite welcome. I am available for any hat questions. I won't be able to answer them all (no one can, sadly) but I have been at this for a while and have a lot of resources.

 

[CladSpends2]

So, you don't think that when LBJ became president, some people that never would have bought a cowboy hat at all, bought similar cowboy hats to those he often wore? (Which is all I was saying) I would have to politely disagree. I do appreciate all your knowledge on hats though.

T.

 

[Tallone]

Thanks very much for the lesson on Stetson hats, Fedoracentric. I wonder if you can offer any advice on cleaning my hat. There is a small stain that doesn't show in the picture (I can post a pic of the stain if that will help).

My hat, by the way, is size 7 1/8.

 

[dejapooh]

Thanks, Fedi!

 

[Fedoracentric]

So, you don't think that when LBJ became president, some people that never would have bought a cowboy hat at all, bought similar cowboy hats to those he often wore? (Which is all I was saying) I would have to politely disagree. I do appreciate all your knowledge on hats though.

T.

This isn't what you said. Your original post said that the hat style was a "fad." It wasn't. It was around for a very, very long time, long before LBJ came around. You said "that hat might have been a 'fad.'" But the hat was around for a long time before LBJ, so the hat was not a fad.

However, the buyer may have felt he was buying a hat similar to LBJ's, I agree that this is at least possible. Though LBJ's had a smaller brim than that one. But the truth is, that hat was a very, very popular style for men to use in a somewhat casual setting but to still denote a "city hat" as opposed to a full blown cowboy hat. For instance, if you look closely, you'll see this style in thousands of movies from the 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s.

 

[Fedoracentric]

Thanks very much for the lesson on Stetson hats, Fedoracentric. I wonder if you can offer any advice on cleaning my hat. There is a small stain that doesn't show in the picture (I can post a pic of the stain if that will help).

My hat, by the way, is size 7 1/8.

At 7-1/8 it is possible to get between $80 and maybe as much as $120 with the market today I would guess.

As to cleaning, if it is a light stain, believe it or not you use a very fine sandpaper and sand it out. Sandpaper is one method of finishing a felt body before it is finished as a hat.
If it is a very deep, dark, large stain it will likely be impossible to get out.

Another odd thing about fur felt hats is that you can submerge them in a bath of naptha--or the white gas from a Coleman stove. Being submerged for about 2 hours takes dirt out of fur felt but does not damage the hat in any way. There is a light fume around the hat for a short time after it dries, but it soon dissipates.

 

[Dave44]

At 7-1/8 it is possible to get between $80 and maybe as much as $120 with the market today I would guess.

As to cleaning, if it is a light stain, believe it or not you use a very fine sandpaper and sand it out. Sandpaper is one method of finishing a felt body before it is finished as a hat.
If it is a very deep, dark, large stain it will likely be impossible to get out.

Another odd thing about fur felt hats is that you can submerge them in a bath of naptha--or the white gas from a Coleman stove. Being submerged for about 2 hours takes dirt out of fur felt but does not damage the hat in any way. There is a light fume around the hat for a short time after it dries, but it soon dissipates.

The leather sweat band is ok too? Is there a good way to restiffen the hat? I still have my old hats and a couple of them have wilted a small bit? Most were working hats at 3x and then 5x.

 

[Fedoracentric]

The leather sweat band is ok too? Is there a good way to restiffen the hat? I still have my old hats and a couple of them have wilted a small bit? Most were working hats at 3x and then 5x.

The white gas/naptha bath won't hurt the leather (but I always use Picards leather treatment or mink oil on mine, anyway, right before the naptha bath.). As to "stiffening" a leather sweat, well you definitely don't want the leather to be stiff. You want it to be supple so that it molds to your head while wearing it. If the leather is real stiff, that is usually a sign of dryrot and a sign the the leather is ruined and unrecoverable.

But that description doesn't hold for a synthetic faux leather sweatband.

Unfortunately, many of today's modern hats use synthetic material instead of real leather and synthetic sweatbands are often pretty thick and stiff. That is not really a good thing, though, and is the sign of cheap materials.

As to sizing, get a hat jack. Leather sweatbands and fur felt often contract over time and get a bit smaller. If you use a hat jack it will keep the hat at the right size (just don't over stretch or it will get bigger than you want).

Antique hats are a funny breed. They shrink often, but then again there are times when the go the opposite way and get bigger!

But, to be honest a "hat size" is often different from hat to hat even when brand new. That is why hat shops were so necessary in the old days because you really just can't say how a hat will fit until you plop it on your head. One size 7-1/8 will fit differently than the next even if they are new hats and the same model and manufacturer! This thing is felt and leather are malleable materials and just can't be made to be exact all the time like a assembly line item can.

(I know I am going on and on, but there is SO much to hats that people just don't know about anymore.)

Finally, as to stiffening the whole hat, you can spray it with Khal's hat stiffener. It is almost like spraying it with old fashioned hair spray. Of course, with real good quality felt you don't want it too stiff. The best felt is creased by hand and then can hold any shape you want--no stiffener needed. It's the cheap, less dense felt that won't hold a shape. I would think a 3X from the late 50s should hold fairly well.

Oh, and one more thing: avoid 100% wool fedoras. They don't last because wool cannot be made to hold its shape well, especially the brim.

 

[Dave44]

Thank you, I was indeed talking about stiffening the felt. I have never met a wool felt hat that was worth a penny to me lol. Thanks for your help,

 

[Tallone]

Thanks again for the great info, Fedora. BTW, when I was considering buying this hat, it never occurred to me that LBJ (or any other person - famous or otherwise) had a similar hat.