Serious question; no offense meant

[stoney]

As a new detectorist I am interested in all aspects of the hobby. Naturally, I've been devouring everything I can find about finding buried/sunken metal. Being a bit of a techie (over 30 years in telecommunications as a fiber optics engineer/technician) I looked at how these things work and how they are constructed.

I am baffled. Can someone please tell me how they work? I may not have found info that is already here, but not for lack of looking. I am quite comfortable with tech talk in many fields and think I should be able to understand anything as simple as an electromagnetic phenomenon, but so far nothing I have seen lays it out in plain, common technical English.

Richard Feynman once said that if one cannot explain a concept to satisfy a child's curiosity then they probably do not really understand it themselves. (paraphrased)

I get PCM, WDM, TDM, modal dispersion, phase delay, SWR, RF and optical waveguides and wave propagation; I just want to know how these devices work.

If it is extra-sensory or paranormal, that I don't understand but would like to.

Thanks for any non-aggressive, non-defensive, constructive inpup!

Stoney

 

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[Calvin.Coin]

Richard Feynman once said that if one cannot explain a concept to satisfy a child's curiosity then they probably do not really understand it themselves. (paraphrased)

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Google search would give you answer.... See if this helps at all as far as in layman terms.....HowStuffWorks "VLF Metal Detectors"

By the way I also have worked in telecommunication for over 30 years.....

 

[aarthrj3811]

I know how set my equipment up..I know how to follow the signal to the target...I leave the rest up to the manufacturer...Art

 

[stoney]

Thanks, Treasure Hunter, but this info is the very easy to understand explanation of VLF field interference. No problem at all. I would like to find info on LRL equipment operation.

Again, I do appreciate the response.

Stoney

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Sorry did not relealize the thread was in LRL forum. I will leave it there without farther comment....

 

[4reale]

If you can find one credible find with one of these detectors, good luck. Many have tried - none have succeeded. Perhaps the technology isn't there yet, because most of the 'machines' work like dowsing. The only certified, super deep detecting machines made use GPR (ground penetrating radar) which have found Nazi gold in Yugoslavia (3 million worth), and many finds in the middle east and China. And they will go deeper than anything you want to dig without telling the whole world you've found something valuable, which draws the human vermin like flies on feces. A $100,000.00 reward was offered for anyone who ever found anything with these machines in 1992 - it is still there for the collecting. Does that tell you something?

OKM (Germany) makes these super deep machines, but they will find stuff that is up to 100' deep, and cost you about $55,000.00 for the basic machine - software is extra. That's a little steep for most folks, and you'd die of a heart attack digging up the target without serious equipment and personnel to bring up the find. There is new technology out there, just not in the field you're looking at.

 

[aarthrj3811]

~stoney~

No problem at all. I would like to find info on LRL equipment operation

They all operate differently...Some are made to locate long buried treasure. In other word they are made to find treasure that the maker likes to hunt for....They all have different features like depth and distance...I have one that will find a flake of gold at a distance of 8 miles...I no longer use it as walking 8 miles to recover a few flakes of gold is no fun..Art

 

[Calvin.Coin]

 

[aarthrj3811]

~4reale~

If you can find one credible find with one of these detectors, good luck. Many have tried - none have succeeded.

Many web site show lots of photo’s and finds on them..Many testimonials also...Many can be found right here..

Perhaps the technology isn't there yet, because most of the 'machines' work like dowsing.

Like I have said before...If you try to Dowse with these machines you are doomed to failure... By the way..I can also find treasure using a set of Dowsing Rods...Art

 

[stoney]

~stoney~

They all operate differently...Some are made to locate long buried treasure. In other word they are made to find treasure that the maker likes to hunt for....They all have different features like depth and distance...I have one that will find a flake of gold at a distance of 8 miles...I no longer use it as walking 8 miles to recover a few flakes of gold is no fun..Art

Thanks for the responses. However, I am seeking information about the technology behind any of these long range units. What physical processes are applied to enable the device to react to specific materials? What radiating fields are being detected? If some remarkably low amplitude energies are being detected how are they amplified and processed?

One thing in particular intrigues me. Some reports I have seen say that people have found items that are non-conductive and non-ferrous. I have to admit some level of skepticism on this but will be very happy to be convinced by science.

Thanks again.

Stoney

 

[stoney]

Double post. Sorry.

 

[aarthrj3811]

~stoney~
One thing in particular intrigues me. Some reports I have seen say that people have found items that are non-conductive and non-ferrous. I have to admit some level of skepticism on this but will be very happy to be convinced by science.

Yes that is correct..Some of them are designed to do just that...I can find paper money with mine...The frequency for a dollar bill is 9.744 and Dinosaur Bones is 13.48...Art

 

[stoney]

Hi,

Are these frequency numbers in mhz, khz, thz? From where do these energies emanate? How does the locator receive and process these energies? Can I use my spectrum analyzer to measure these electromagnetic waves from a dollar bill?

Also, if there are locators that find small amounts of gold at significant distances can we assume that missed deposits would be easy targets around abandoned mines? It seems to me that if this is so one would only need to spend some time learning the workings of the device and then take a vacation to California or Colorado to retrieve a virtual fortune.

I love technology and learning how things work. I also love logic. I have had very little trouble reconciling these two passions over my 6+ decades. I appreciate your input and understand that you are happy in your hobby. Go for it. However, healthy skeptic that I am, I will continue to seek some kind of observable evidence and logical science to explain how these devices work. So far I have seen only dismantled instruments with what amounts to inappropriate electronics wired to some antennae along with photos of some finds that are usually comparable to what I have found in one summer in local parks and beaches.

"This above all; to thine own self be true." (Pelonius) So far, for me, this bell just doesn't ring true.

Thanks again for all the input. I still await some technical data. I'd love to come back from my next vacation rich!

Stoney

 

[Mackaydon]

Stoney,
Welcome to Treasure Net !!
You pose great questions.
As a total techie novice, I'm following this thread seeking the same answers.
Don.....

 

[aarthrj3811]

~stoney~
Are these frequency numbers in mhz, khz, thz? From where do these energies emanate? How does the locator receive and process these energies? Can I use my spectrum analyzer to measure these electromagnetic waves from a dollar bill?

The numbers are from the manufactures and find said objects

Also, if there are locators that find small amounts of gold at significant distances can we assume that missed deposits would be easy targets around abandoned mines? It seems to me that if this is so one would only need to spend some time learning the workings of the device and then take a vacation to California or Colorado to retrieve a virtual fortune.

You can assume anything that you want...I am happy just to have a device that pays for my expenses while I enjoy my hobby..

"This above all; to thine own self be true." (Pelonius) So far, for me, this bell just doesn't ring true.

Thanks again for all the input. I still await some technical data. I'd love to come back from my next vacation rich!

You may want to talk to a manufactuer...Art

 

[Kentucky Kache]

stoney, I don't think any LRL user is falling for the trick.

 

[stoney]

stoney, I don't think any LRL user is falling for the trick.

Hi, KK,

I really meant no trick at all. I guess there are no answers, so it's now time to drop it. I don't understand why people are so defensive! Seriously, I know that when I run a properly set up VLF coil over a piece of metal it will react in very predictable ways. If it does not, I know why; there are explainable, technical reasons why it works and why it may fail. If I look for coins and jewelry I find coins and jewelry. It there is a real method available to locate and retrieve gold from a distance, I want it. Really. However, I also want antigravity, but the folks who claim to have it never want to demonstrate it or explain it in ways that fit in the known realm of science and physics.

I hope someday to be proven wrong, but, frankly, answers like "I have photos" or "No one will fall for this trick" just end the search for me. There are too many tools that are field proven (not just talked about) to work. I think I'll stick to them for now.

I will continue to watch this part of this great website for future information. You know the old saying; "minds, like parachutes, only work when open."

Peace.

Skip Toney, a.k.a. Stoney

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Hi, KK,

I really meant no trick at all. I guess there are no answers, so it's now time to drop it. I don't understand why people are so defensive! Seriously, I know that when I run a properly set up VLF coil over a piece of metal it will react in very predictable ways. If it does not, I know why; there are explainable, technical reasons why it works and why it may fail. If I look for coins and jewelry I find coins and jewelry. It there is a real method available to locate and retrieve gold from a distance, I want it. Really. However, I also want antigravity, but the folks who claim to have it never want to demonstrate it or explain it in ways that fit in the known realm of science and physics.

I hope someday to be proven wrong, but, frankly, answers like "I have photos" or "No one will fall for this trick" just end the search for me. There are too many tools that are field proven (not just talked about) to work. I think I'll stick to them for now.

I will continue to watch this part of this great website for future information. You know the old saying; "minds, like parachutes, only work when open."

Peace.

Skip Toney, a.k.a. Stoney

I'm gonna tell you why LRL users are so defensive. It's because LRL downers are so OFFENSIVE. I'm not an LRL user, but I've been around here long enough to see how the "debates" go.
For someone who is JUST wanting an explanation, you sure have some strong leanings in one direction. It seems as though you have already made up your mind. But if you're serious
about an open mind, then I would tell you to stay open to all possibilities. That's what I try to do. I don't know if any LRL out there is for real, but I believe all things have a resonant frequency.
What MIGHT we be able to do with that? Nothing? I'm glad Thomas Edison didn't think that way.

 

[stoney]

Hi, KK,

No, my only bias is a need to understand. I, too, am a fan of the unusual. Even Tesla, whose ideas were far detached from those of his peers, intrigued me enough to warrant the research I have done. His close affiliation with Edison was interesting, and many of Edison's patents are actually the seminal work of Tesla. He did, indeed, work with resonant frequencies. His work mostly involved mechanically inducing vibration into materials, particularly steel, to start a wave in the material under test. These tests showed that at the material's "resonant frequency" the induced wave could become destructive. Open mind? Indeed!

Regarding resonant frequencies; what you say if very likely possible. I have just not heard of a way to measure them. Why does this make me a "LRL downer?" All I am looking for is an explanation of how LRL devices detect and measure these resonant frequencies if this is actually the way they work. Why is that offensive?

You asked, "What MIGHT (sic) we be able to do with that?" Having watched technology blossom in the past 50 years I am not such a fool as to rule out any possibilities. I am simply asking, "What CAN we do with that with our current knowledge, and how?"

Sorry if you feel offended. This kind of dialogue is precisely what I want to avoid. Forgive me for any perceived offense.

Peace, and best of luck with all your endeavors.

Stoney